Your thoughts

[Ack-Ack]

why is it the spit 14 is never used for the most part, but the spit 16 is so good? tell me that, seem to be in the know on the Spitfire models.

The reason why most people tend to shy away from the XIV is that it's harder to fly than the other Spitfires and as such, fly it incorrectly trying to turn with anything that moves.  That's a quick way to get yourself shot down in a XIV.

So far the "perk the plane XXX" crowd has yet to show any valid proof to back up their claims the XVI needs to be perked other than using the old and tired stand by of "too many are being flown!" argument.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Even at 400mph ias, trying to out zoomclimb a Spit16 is a losing proposition in a F4U, P-47 or P-38.

No, it's not.  We can put it to the test...you in a Mk XVI and me in a P-38J.  Both start our dives at 15k until we hit 400mph IAS and pull into a vertical climb.  You will be stalling out long before I do in the P-38J.  The Spitfire Mk XVI is not better than the Lighting in the vertical.


ack-ack

[BoilerDown]

With a few exceptions, I fear that most changes to the ENY / Perk system that I see suggested would result in the opposite of the desired effect, or have no effect at all.  In this case, perk the 16 and it becomes the next perked hanger queen like the 14.  Unperk the 14 and it becomes a the next Spixteen.  The game would survive the change but the uber ride pilots would just change to the next best on the list.

I've seen it suggested that perks should be reset each tour.  That would just result in everyone using up all their perks at the end of the tour... in the last day or two of the month, if you don't have perks left, you may as well watch TV instead of log on.

What needs to be done is to convince the average Aces High II pilot to fly something other than the 10 and under ENY rides... to make them want to fly something other than the 10 and under rides.  And to do it without changing the underlying ENY and Perk system which works pretty well right now.

And I came up with just such a way:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,246499.0.html

Simple and I think it would be effective.  A bunch of Spixteen and P-51 drivers poo-poo'd it, but I think they felt threatened a bit, because if implemented, a P40 driver landing two kills might be considered to have a "bigger e-peen" than them all of the sudden .

[uberslet]

Boiler, i agree with that preposition now that i really thought about it, as i think i was opposed to it. as you mentioned in one of your responses, showing ho many perks one makes in a sortie, would put more of a focus on getting perks, instead of kills. However, if this idea was implemented, many pilots who are in no concern  of little (or no perks), or even worried about running out of perks, really wouldnt care weather or not they make 2 perks for 10 kills in a spit 16 or la or nikki, but others, like me, who arnt so hot on perks, instead of going to the hangar and checking, could just reup an d get back into action. the text buffer could say this "HOST: SO&SO got X amount of perks for Y amount of kills in this ride of....." SO&SO being the player, X being the perks, and Y amount of kills, of.... being the squad name. this may sound easier than actually doing for HTC, but it could be a fix as you had been suggesting. Someone had said that some players would go to the team with lesser players so they could get more perks, and still fly their rides, how ever it would encourage others to not fight that team. anyway, my input sir. 

[BnZ]

No, it's not.  We can put it to the test...you in a Mk XVI and me in a P-38J.  Both start our dives at 15k until we hit 400mph IAS and pull into a vertical climb.  You will be stalling out long before I do in the P-38J.  The Spitfire Mk XVI is not better than the Lighting in the vertical.


ack-ack

http://www.mediafire.com/?mfmpy2mmx3d

Used the same procedure as I used for the Spit XVI vs. P47N contest. Dive to past 400 to ~100 feet above the waves, wait until the speed bleeds to 400, pull up, use shift-x to hold the plane vertically until it stalls out. Despite the fact that the P-38 weighs twice as much as the Spit and has the advantage of torquelessness, they still regain substantially the same amount of altitude in the zoom.

The real head-scratcher was when I tested the P-47 zoom and Spit zoom-same procedure as above, only with a CLOSED throttle to take the Spit16's horsepower out of the equation-and still got almost identical zoom results.

[Anaxogoras]

No, it's not.  We can put it to the test...you in a Mk XVI and me in a P-38J.  Both start our dives at 15k until we hit 400mph IAS and pull into a vertical climb.  You will be stalling out long before I do in the P-38J.  The Spitfire Mk XVI is not better than the Lighting in the vertical.


ack-ack

Did you read my post?  I tested it offline and from 400mph ias the Spit16 outzooms the P-38L, and therefore I would think the same for the J.  Shall I test that one too?  Now, that's not to say it's not easier to control a P-38 through a vertical maneuver, but that's a different point.

[Anaxogoras]

The reason why most people tend to shy away from the XIV is that it's harder to fly than the other Spitfires and as such, fly it incorrectly trying to turn with anything that moves.  That's a quick way to get yourself shot down in a XIV.

I think we agree that the XIV does not deserve a perk price.

[1pLUs44]

The reason why most people tend to shy away from the XIV is that it's harder to fly than the other Spitfires and as such, fly it incorrectly trying to turn with anything that moves.  That's a quick way to get yourself shot down in a XIV.

So far the "perk the plane XXX" crowd has yet to show any valid proof to back up their claims the XVI needs to be perked other than using the old and tired stand by of "too many are being flown!" argument.


ack-ack

I think for the most part, people want to see it perked because it can roll, climb, and accelerate very very well. I dont really care, a Spit 16 is just free perks in my eyes.

[Guppy35]

So in the end, what are folks trying to achieve?

Is the goal to force newbies out of planes that give them success faster and easier?  Seems like I'd rather live with that and bring new blood into the game then force them into birds that have a steeper learning curve to start.  If they stick around long enough they'll get bored and look at other birds for a challenge.  

I can't help but go back to 'who cares'.  Unperk em all and let folks fly what they want.  Either they'll begin to challenge themselves in time as they get comfortable 'flying' or they'll fade away.

And I'll ask it again as no one ever answere the first time.  If HTC had named the Spit XVIe the Spit LFIXe, which is identical other then Rolls vs Packard built Merlins, who anyone be saying anything?  I get worried that for many folks if the number is higher, it must be better when they see the planes listed.

Just keep in mind that the Spitfire LFIXe/XVIe was in reality designed for the airwar that's flown in AH.  Low to medium alt.  The clipped wing was for that purpose and roll rate.  The Merling 266 was designed for best performance at the alts AH is flown.

It is, what it is, and it's just not that big a deal

[Anaxogoras]

And I'll ask it again as no one ever answere the first time.  If HTC had named the Spit XVIe the Spit LFIXe, which is identical other then Rolls vs Packard built Merlins, who anyone be saying anything?  I get worried that for many folks if the number is higher, it must be better when they see the planes listed.

Give us more credit than that!   Whether it's a IX or a XVI doesn't matter, we're looking at performance.  I think if the 16 were perked the new players would have the 8, which is just a tad slower and only has a good roll rate.  That said, if we're going to have a perk system in place, it's a close call for the 16.  I admit that, but it would be a small perk cost, I think.

My only criterion for perking is this: if it turns an average pilot into a dangerous pilot.  The XIV doesn't.  Maybe the F4U-4 doesn't deserve a perk price, either.  The only thing it does better than the regular Corsairs is run away.

[1pLUs44]

Well... if people want things perked that kill them the most.... then PERK THE P38! 

[Guppy35]

Give us more credit than that!   Whether it's a IX or a XVI doesn't matter, we're looking at performance.  I think if the 16 were perked the new players would have the 8, which is just a tad slower and only has a good roll rate.  That said, if we're going to have a perk system in place, it's a close call for the 16.  I admit that, but it would be a small perk cost, I think.

My only criterion for perking is this: if it turns an average pilot into a dangerous pilot.  The XIV doesn't.  Maybe the F4U-4 doesn't deserve a perk price, either.  The only thing it does better than the regular Corsairs is run away.

So it really isn't the plane that should be perked, it's the pilot type?

We want to make sure that running, HO'ing, BnZ type pilots who spend their time trying to avoid the fight and land their kills, are in planes we can catch if we don't fly the latest and greatest?

I get it, when it comes to ENY.  50 guys in Spit 16s vs 1 guy in a Spit 16 isn't going to be much fun.  But if the numbers are close to even, who cares.  The good sticks for the most part aren't going to be in 16s, and if it gets the newer and more average sticks to stay and fight, let em all have 16s.

If I were really dying, I might care more about what the other guy flew, but in the end it's about getting people to have the confidence to enter the fight.  The 16 is much more apt to get a guy to stick around then a Temp, C Hog, 262 etc.  Those birds are a pain because they go fast, have big cannons and don't stick around and fight.  The XIV flown the way it should be, is a bird much the same as those other go fast, shoot em and runaway types. 

Worrying about the 16, is much ado about nothing.  Just shoot em.

[Anaxogoras]

So it really isn't the plane that should be perked, it's the pilot type?

No.

[uberslet]

 Maybe the F4U-4 doesn't deserve a perk price, either.  The only thing it does better than the regular Corsairs is run away.

The F4U-4 turns a moderatly expierenced F4U pilot into a potentially deadly pilot. out climbs (zoom or cruise speed) the other F4U's. out turns the other F4U's, does just about everything better than, except for outgun the C-Hog.