Finally, something to whine about!

[Dadsguns]

Well, I was happily buff hunting.  They should have just left me alone.

I should post this on the wish list forums, however,,, I live in VA BCH, in the summer they have planes flying around pulling these huge advertising banners of various sizes, well I was just thinking,,, maybe we could use them in the game,,, so you would pull one around that would say,,,ummm BUFF HUNTING, PICKING, RUNNING, RTB, or just HI YALL, HOWDY, WHAT IS YOUR SIGN, etc....

[BaldEagl]

well, sniffing your stats, the only thing you've seemed to learn is how to game the stats.  however, seems you've been consistently mediocre in skills over the years...

 

And that has relevence to this thread in what way?

If you look closer the only stat I'm consistently bad in is K/H due to where and how I fly and what i enjoy in the game.  I also fly all of the plane set over time and I can't claim greatness in every plane in the game.

Still, I'm not claiming to be among the best but certainly am not among the worst.  Lets go to the DA.  You'll probably win but I bet I'll surprise you.

BTW, what's your in-game name?

[Anaxogoras]

Im sorry, what is this "The Move" you guys are talking about ?

Maybe batfink can post another film link in this thread?  I would describe the move like this:  The bandit attacks from 6 o'clock with a superior energy state.  The intended target makes a gentle, nose-low turn that's just inside the turn radius of the attacker.  At the right moment, the target levels out, acquires the attacker from the side view, and puts a well-placed snap shot on the overzealous attacker as he overshoots.

[Kotari]

Sounds like i got a lot to learn in this area, never have succeeded to get a kill from a bnz'er missing me.
Thanks for the description, it was very helpfull <S>

[Anaxogoras]

Well, the attackers I saw in batfink's films were not traditional bnz aircraft.  Mostly 16s and N1ks, while batfink was in a 109K.

[mechanic]

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/reversek4.ahf


couple of really old 109K4 clips i still got hosted. Like shane says, I didnt invent this move at all, though i may have innovated it and demonstrated it more than anyone else. Not to mention winning advantages with it almost every sortie. The single most valuable defensive theory to counter a high con. (also i would like to refer to Steve's rope thread about now. Don't blame or demonish the guys who die in these clips. Everyone falls for this sooner or later, I know i have done more than once and i practicaly eat, sleep and breath the move.)

 

[Shane]

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/reversek4.ahf

couple of really old 109K4 clips i still got hosted. Like shane says, I didnt invent this move at all, though i may have innovated it and demonstrated it more than anyone else. Not to mention winning advantages with it almost every sortie. The single most valuable defensive theory to counter a high con. (also i would like to refer to Steve's rope thread about now. Don't blame or demonish the guys who die in these clips. Everyone falls for this sooner or later, I know i have done more than once and i practicaly eat, sleep and breath the move.)

 

i think the move, or the initial part of it is fairly common as someone rolls out defensively and breaks to increase separation from the bandits...  those of us who see all oppt'y as being offensive, have discovered that rolling back into the bogeys line provides us with a shot, however briefly, and if the was also trying to slow down, then you just might have acquired their 6, forcing them down and out or die.


it's kind of hinted at in here (june 99):  http://homepage.eircom.net/~frontacs/WBStored/RollingScissorsvsBreakTurn.html

"For an example, when i fly the 109 attacking from above is absolutely necessary. So I begin my dive and watch my target pull into a sharp diving break turn, or even Split S. He has evaded my attack, but blown all of his energy and lost any hope of attaining an equal energy state to my own (unless it's a dragless Spit ). The targets who really scare me, and who have shot me down from an inferior position a few times, are the ones who do some variation of a scissors mentioned above. A barrel roll variation also works really well, and is so hard to hit. Reversing a disadvantage is not about gaining superior position, it's about gaining superior energy."

and also hinted at in here(same site,  jan '99)  - and lookee who's name appears:  http://homepage.eircom.net/~frontacs/WBStored/ACMLagDisplacementRolls.html

"Has anyone in a Spitfire been killed by an FW190 after an energy pass and wondered how in the heck that bird got turned around and got on your six so fast?

Usually that would be DocDoom or Drex or GunJam in the ID. =)"

[mechanic]

wow, now there are some classic thread archives to look through. cheers shane.

[Shane]

And that has relevence to this thread in what way?

If you look closer the only stat I'm consistently bad in is K/H due to where and how I fly and what i enjoy in the game.  I also fly all of the plane set over time and I can't claim greatness in every plane in the game.

Still, I'm not claiming to be among the best but certainly am not among the worst.  Lets go to the DA.  You'll probably win but I bet I'll surprise you.

BTW, what's your in-game name?

it's relevant, how?  well, for several comments from you in this thread:

...Last night I ran into a 109K-4, then later a 109G-14 that showed some of the most timid flying I have ever seen.......

...What were they thinking taking those planes up?  It certainly couldn't have been fun for them the way they flew.

...If you do engage and break off, then IMO it's pretty dweeby to try to follow them home afterwards for the landing vulch.

... don't think I've ever really done that to any extent unless I was already low on fuel, low on ammo or already shot up, in which case I wouldn't have initiated another engagement either.  H@ll, it took me years to get out of the habit of diving into me on 10+ odds alone.  It's only been within the past year or so that I broke myself of that habit.

need i break it down further?

 

and my in-name game is shane08 (added the 08) when i returned in mid-aug after an 18mo break.  Started AH in tour 14 coming from AW3 (started in '98) after AW millenium went pay for play and EA killed it.  I don't doubt you have a lot of basic gaming skills - your stats indicate that clearly... i do however think you've rarely ever gotten out of that fighting-style comfort zone.  Ironic coming from a self-proclaimed spit fan, no?

[BaldEagl]

it's relevant, how?  well, for several comments from you in this thread:

need i break it down further?

 

and my in-name game is shane08 (added the 08) when i returned in mid-aug after an 18mo break.  Started AH in tour 14 coming from AW3 (started in '98) after AW millenium went pay for play and EA killed it.  I don't doubt you have a lot of basic gaming skills - your stats indicate that clearly... i do however think you've rarely ever gotten out of that fighting-style comfort zone.  Ironic coming from a self-proclaimed spit fan, no?

I'm sorry.  I still don't see where my stats are relevent to those comments.

1.  It was timid flying.  I am not a timid flyer, but I do spend time in the lesser populated areas of the map trying to find one-on-ones as I'm not part of a hoard squad.  As I've always said, I also like ot hunt buffs and the climb-out and the hunt are sometimes time consuming.

2.  As I've said, I fly every plane in the set every few months.  On rare occasions where I'm totally uncomfortable in something I might not engage, but for the most part I'll go for it and see what happens regardless of the match-up.

3.  I can only recount two times that I've followed someone home to vulch them on landing and both times it was buffs.  I've never engaged, disengaged, then lurked behind someone in such a dweebish way.

4.  Exectly as I stated.

Your stats aren't exactly uber either given how much I've heard of your skills.  Your K/S slightly outpaces mine and your K/H is clearly better than mine.

Lets compare out past few camps since you brought it up:

Late War Tour 105 Fighter Scores for BaldEagl
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 3.94 155
Kills per Sortie 1.49 292
Kills per Hour of Flight 4.46 1324
Kills Hit Percentage 12.80 76
Kill Points 32692.38 125
Fighter Rank: 156

Late War Tour 105 Fighter Scores for Shane08
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 2.05 461
Kills per Sortie 1.65 215
Kills per Hour of Flight 7.45 365
Kills Hit Percentage 5.21 1255
Kill Points 12575.34 694
Fighter Rank: 325

Late War Tour 104 Fighter Scores for BaldEagl
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 3.20 237
Kills per Sortie 1.29 425
Kills per Hour of Flight 3.46 2105
Kills Hit Percentage 10.06 189
Kill Points 39704.21 93
Fighter Rank: 318

Late War Tour 104 Fighter Scores for Shane08
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 2.61 345
Kills per Sortie 2.11 131
Kills per Hour of Flight 8.06 315
Kills Hit Percentage 5.77 1033
Kill Points 17367.82 452
Fighter Rank: 193

Late War Tour 103 Fighter Scores for BaldEagl
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 2.21 463
Kills per Sortie 1.24 478
Kills per Hour of Flight 3.71 1967
Kills Hit Percentage 10.56 152
Kill Points 31994.99 219
Fighter Rank: 353

Late War Tour 103 Fighter Scores for Shane08
 Score   Rank   
Kills per Death + 1 2.13 484
Kills per Sortie 1.90 185
Kills per Hour of Flight 10.30 109
Kills Hit Percentage 5.15 1311
Kill Points 4223.88 2085
Fighter Rank: 519

I joined AW in June '96.  Was there until the end then switched over here immediately after.

Speaking of comfort zones; LA-7, meet Spit.

So... DA?

[BaldEagl]

Triple post

[BaldEagl]

Triple post... stupid BBs wasn't posting so I leave, come back and here's three posts of the same thing.

[mechanic]

would that be three seperate challenges or one times three?

[Shane]

would that be three seperate challenges or one times three?

heh.

but in response to baldie...  you can't whine about timid flying when you're one of those "survivalist" types who uses any excuse to rtb.  this and your stats imply you're all about ranking.

i'm not saying you have zero mad skillz - you have great overall gaming skillz (but tip - read zazen's treatsie on ftr stats)... i just found this thread ironic.

as for the DA.. if you see me on, just ask. we can do whatever scenario floats your boat, as long as you don't claim running me out of gas as a "win."   


oh.. as for our stat comparison.. bear in mind i recently returned after a 18 month break.. tour 102.  I'm no where near the level i used to be, nor as motivated... meh...

[dkff49]

OK.  I watched the film.  I reversed on Caldera 12 times in ~8 minutes then finally exited, probably out of ammo (but the stupid film viewer doesn't let you see that).

For the most part, our fight took place with us within 1.5K of one another although there were a couple of times it extended to 2.5K mostly near the end as Caldera tried to extend and I had to chase him back down.  Through much of the fight I was reversing at under 1K (many reverses at 7-900).

I'm certainly not going to appologize or feel bad about using the K4's superior climb rate to try to beat a much nimbler aircraft.

This film is nothing for me to be ashamed of other than the fact I didn't get the kill and has absolutely nothing in common with my encounters last night.  I stayed in and fought until I was out of ammo.  None of these were BnZ passes.  It was classic energy fighting with a less nimble AC against a more nimble AC both using their planes strengths to try to gain an advantage and, for the most part, remaining inside the box.

Bald nobody is expecting you to appologize or feel ashamed. I think the film shows you taking a safe approach to a fight much like the fight you described in your original post. You came in with an advantage and decided to take all the time you needed to maintain that advantage. Your not the only one that does it. I would however not call it a classic energy fight, in the respect that I have seen many others who I would consider to be excellent in the energy fighting realm press their attacks at a much more rapid pace. Taking almost a full minute to finally make another sweep and after he shows you his tail is fairly timid way to fight IMO and in my opinon were excellent examples of BnZ.

What I did see was a change in tactics on caldera's part in an attempt to try and end the stailmate that I saw happening in the film.

Again no need to feel ashamed and nobody here seems to be trying to make you feel that waybut it seems that you started this thread to complain about someone who tried to keep their advantage to a safe level when you have been known to do the same.