Dueling: What shots do you take and what shots do you hold off on?

[grizz441]

no no.. don't spin.  answer.  with your integrity.  Were you substantially above the agreed upon alt cap at vis?  Yes or no? Simple question, simple answer.

The agreed alt cap vis was irrelevant.  At that juncture it wasn't me and you upping for eachother.  You were fighting another pilot and I was just flying around in the middle of nowhere waiting for the fight to be over.  It doesn't matter if I took a piss and came back and was at 10k.  It had nothing to do with the fight I was just out there waiting for you to regain your speed and alt after your fight and then I'd chop throttle get down to reasonable alt (If I was above 5k or whatever), turn for you, and then we fight.  You obviously know this Shane.  You're just being a twanging amazinhunk.  I'm done with this.  See you around champ.

[moot]

No, he's doing the same thing you're doing, calling it like he sees it.   On that note, I'm gonna pull a beet1e and say toodle-pip.  I hope to catch you guys later for the next riveting episode of AH philosophy 102 - ethics of keyboard warfare.
<S> despised enemies.

[Shane]

In his defense (gasp), 1.5k isnt hard to do when you're not paying attention.. And grizz not quite paying attention aint surprising   I've done it too, like he describes, just once, and had Whels (or a similar name) fly off the handle that I was a cheater and that he 'knew he couldnt trust me / expect so much from me'.

 

oh i agree...  never claimed he was using to his advantage. But he's claiming integrity after repeatedly being above the agreed upon pre-vis alt cap. He should pay better attention.  He's trying to excuse his inattention, even tho he wasn't afk.

When i won, i'd usually hang midway point - to allow him time to get to speed at alt.  When he won, he'd be pretty much crowding me at my base.. waiting til i was ready of course, but being so close-by made me choose to go in at 3-4k (he waited til i said ready.. my "ready" was my decision.) I'm talking within visual, almost icon range. You'll never find me wandering up that far above alt for that very reason, the implications you *can* use that advantage.

My merge decision is also based upon that potential.

This is why when i DUEL.... i always, always auger in (if i won) to re-up on even footing.  For the more relaxed friendly duels I don't mind staying up to save some time, but I always watch my alt. 

[Speed55]

I watched the first film grizz posted, and he used external view twice, once to line up the merge, and once to line up the shot.

Aside from that, I know what shane is saying by could've turned into the HO. In the MA 9/10 times most people will turn into the HO, and take the first shot that they can.

In the DA i guess there are two types of duels.
The friendly type where the only shots are from behind the 6/9 line, with the exception of a snapshot.
The no shot on merge, and anything goes afterwards, meaning that the shot that grizz took was fair.

Right after shane was killed he typed, my bad.   He was nearly inverted and could've  easily pulled back on the stick into grizz avoiding the shot, risking either a collision, or a HO shot.

What i get out of this thread is that grizz and shane were flying different types of duels. Shane was flying more as a teacher, and grizz was flying to win.

What we have here is a failure to communicate...    

[Shuffler]

Cool Hand Luke....................

[SkyRock]

I watched the first film grizz posted, and he used external view twice, once to line up the merge, and once to line up the shot.

External view?   Can you do that?....and why would you want to?   I would think using external view in a duel would be ridiculously cheesy and downright dweeby....not to mention twitlike.

[mechanic]

External view?   Can you do that?....and why would you want to?   I would think using external view in a duel would be ridiculously cheesy and downright dweeby....not to mention twitlike.

lol, agreed.

Grizz - the fact that you even had a chance to shoot him in a HO situation means it was probably likely Shane was going easy the whole time, just feeling you out, as it were. Sure that shot is 'legal' but did it promote a good fight? that is probably what irks shane a little, that he could kill you in a few turns if that was the game, but he is making a fight of it only to then get hit with a cheap shot. Thus proven by the next two where he only cares about killing you not fighting.


Also, do not agree that was a 'bait shot' as you call it. Shane could have held on you and fired or rammed you. It is still a cheap shot at the last second if they have had guns on you and turn to avoid  ram.

If he was trying to gain angles for the next turn, as you say, then what was stopping you turning early also? instead of shooting.

 if that makes sense.

[ink]

External view?   Can you do that?....and why would you want to?   I would think using external view in a duel would be ridiculously cheesy and downright dweeby....not to mention twitlike.

yuppers, and this is why I will not go to DA, if someone wants a grudge duel, I invite them to a lonely part of the map, whats funny is most wont show up.

[SlapShot]

External view?   Can you do that?....and why would you want to?   I would think using external view in a duel would be ridiculously cheesy and downright dweeby....not to mention twitlike.

In the DA ... yes you can ... is it cheesy ? ... as far as I am concerned ... yes.

[grizz441]

External view?   Can you do that?....and why would you want to?   I would think using external view in a duel would be ridiculously cheesy and downright dweeby....not to mention twitlike.

not to mention nooblike....not to mention twitlike, oh wait you already used that one. Actually honestly I got in a habit of using that since they let you use it.  I dueled one of my friends entirely in F3 mode before, it was quite fun and difficult to aim.  Then somehow I got in the habit of flickering to it in actual fights.  I should stop though, it is a bad habit.  I'm also pretty sure Shane used/uses it in that film also at least once.  It's just really easy to hit f3 when you lose someone, premerge i typically just like to look at my plane from external.  But in the fight it's pretty lame.  Why do they even have that option available in the DA?  Should only be in TA.

And fellas, this whole teacher/student thing is nonsense.  Next time we'll take up planes with no ammo and just duel until we run out of fuel going through the maneuvers.  It wasn't even close to a HO and he didn't even get close to finishing his turn, case closed.  I have pretty conservative HO rules meaning anything close to a HO I won't take.  If my opponent can get his nose half way in his front screen next to mine I wont take it.  But an entire screen away from my nose?  That's called a front half shot, not a front quarter shot.  I also don't have time to analyze what Shane is doing in the middle of a fight.  Why is he giving me this shot?  As far as I'm concerned he had his brakes chopped and was going to pull up and reverse me there.  It's called instincts, I don't have time to analyze how uber Shane is in the middle of a fight and that that shot is so easy it's probably a gimme and I should only take snap shots where I'm going 60 mph because that's the only skilled shot that could kill such an uber pilot in honorable fashion, right?

[Kazaa]

Or just go into the TA mate, you can get shot at as much as you like.

[grizz441]

Also, do not agree that was a 'bait shot' as you call it. Shane could have held on you and fired or rammed you. It is still a cheap shot at the last second if they have had guns on you and turn to avoid  ram.

If he was trying to gain angles for the next turn, as you say, then what was stopping you turning early also? instead of shooting.

 if that makes sense.

If his nose would come nose to nose with me (Not Ram close, but close) I wouldn't have been firing.  Because, I had to assume I was being setup and was coming in faster than him, not to mention the la7 is more maneuverable.  If I would have followed him up there I would be risking a reversal or a snapshot. 

I just have to assume I am being setup here, I still think I was.

[mechanic]

but dont you think the fight was unfair anyhow? shane in la7 vs any p38 is unfair? Thus shane was probably going easy on you and there was no need to take that shot. This all looks like a classic 'Ask the community to solve my disagreement whilst giving biased evidence' thread. Shane is usualy fighting people and going easy on them to make Firstly a fun fight and secondly to offer improvement or advice, not to have people complain publicly that he thought your shot was cheap.
 overall: meh, i dont think shane cares this much about it. all water under the bridge now?

[SlapShot]

And fellas, this whole teacher/student thing is nonsense.

Come on ... Shane in an La-7 vs you in a P-38 ... there is no real expectation of you winning that setup, with any regularity, unless Shane is in "teach" mode.

Now had it been Kappa, AKAK, Murdr, Delirium, Fester, 38MAW, and a few other P-38 jocks vs Shane in an La-7 ... then Shane would have been in pure "fight" mode and a true fight would have broken out.

[grizz441]

Come on ... Shane in an La-7 vs you in a P-38 ... there is no real expectation of you winning that setup, with any regularity, unless Shane is in "teach" mode.

Now had it been Kappa, AKAK, Murdr, Delirium, Fester, 38MAW, and a few other P-38 jocks vs Shane in an La-7 ... then Shane would have been in pure "fight" mode and a true fight would have broken out.

Pretty sure he was trying.  If not, then it was a waste of his time as he didn't offer me any advice, just grumbles.  Lets just drop it, we are now making crazy fictional stories about a 2 hour dueling set based on 5 minutes of film.