P-47M

[druski85]

I agree the N is a good ride, but I'm not sure about this line...

Moreover, while the 8 .50s are a bit weaker than a 4x20mm armament, the total destructive potential of its guns is 4th in the game after the 110 G, 190A-8, and N1K2.  Did I mention ordinance?

Seahog, mossi, typh (and temp), Ta-152 all hit harder as well.  I would also say debatably that the 109 G-6 + G-14 with gondies are quite comparable.  Ballistics are of course more difficult, (particuarly the 152) but punching power is greater than the buzzsaw .50s.  So that puts destructive potential down in the upper - middle of the pack. 

[Anaxogoras]

What do you think I meant by destructive potential?  Certainly not firepower/time.

[BnZs]

Lastly, the P-47N should be flown at altitude.  Don't compare it to La-7s and Typhoons at 2k ft.  Keep it above 10k ft and nothing can touch you.

And you will be a very lonely boy.

[druski85]

What do you think I meant by destructive potential?  Certainly not firepower/time.

Ah ok, I was thinking if you're firing at say a hanger.  But air to air efficiency, I'd still put all those listed except the 152 higher.  I'm also used to the weird german 20 mm balistics...

[Stoney]

any plane can be competitive in the MA, given proper use..

But to say that the P-47M will be any different in this respect is foolhardy.  I'm not even sure that it would deserve a perk based on pure performance.  Sure, everyone will use it if they fly a P-47, but otherwise, it will be a hotter D model, susceptible to all of the things that P-47s suffer from in the MA.  It would be the F4U-4 of the P-47 line, with much potential that will be basically lost when folks turn it, like they do any Jug, into a bomb truck that climbs and flies faster.

[AWwrgwy]

  It would be the F4U-4 of the P-47 line, with much potential that will be basically lost when folks turn it, like they do any Jug, into a bomb truck that climbs and flies faster.

No bomb shackles so that worry is squashed.


wrongway

[fyvsix]

No bomb shackles so that worry is squashed.


wrongway

I'm pretty sure they had shackles and I'm pretty sure I can dig up pics. Field modified I believe. I could be wrong though.

[Wingnutt]

Anyone who thinks the N doesnt pawn all hasnt had it up to 30,000 feet.....

If you ever get in a fight up there you will see why it has a ENY of 5.

Whether its worth the ENY 5 down low is another story.

you take an N to 30 k and you will have nothing to fight 95% of the time..  its performance at that alt is pretty much pointless.

[Wingnutt]

I don't think you have accurately estimated the N's performance.  Among single engine fighters, its Eg retention is 2nd only to the Ta-152.  At 400mph its roll rate is tied for first with the P-38L, and at lower speeds its roll rate is still among the best.  I don't know why you'd compare its armament to the 30mm Mk 108, which only achieves a paltry 540m/s muzzle velocity.  Moreover, while the 8 .50s are a bit weaker than a 4x20mm armament, the total destructive potential of its guns is 4th in the game after the 110 G, 190A-8, and N1K2.  Did I mention ordinance?

Lastly, the P-47N should be flown at altitude.  Don't compare it to La-7s and Typhoons at 2k ft.  Keep it above 10k ft and nothing can touch you.

Corsairs hold E better, F6F about the same.

its roll rate is inferior to any 190 at any speed.

"destructive power" its still middle of the pack to above average..  anything with a single 30mm has an edge over it, considering they can deliver the "1 hitter quitter" where the jug cannot.. which is important in a BNZ ride.

Ord?  yes.. it carries alot..  and handles and climbs like a B26 while doing so.

[Anaxogoras]

Corsairs hold E better, F6F about the same.

its roll rate is inferior to any 190 at any speed.

"destructive power" its still middle of the pack to above average..  anything with a single 30mm has an edge over it, considering they can deliver the "1 hitter quitter" where the jug cannot.. which is important in a BNZ ride.

Ord?  yes.. it carries alot..  and handles and climbs like a B26 while doing so.

Have you tested this?  I have.

The P-47N holds E better than both the F4U-1A (the best E retaining Hog) and the F6F (by far).

Time to decelerate from 400mph to 150mph in a power off glide, prop feathered, in seconds:

P-47N:  101.16
F4U-1A:  99.6
F6F-5:    91.76

Time to complete a 360 degree roll at 400mph ias, in seconds:

P-47N:  3.45
190A-5: 3.74

And the P-47N's roll superiority over the 190 improves the faster you go past 400mph.

You are wrong to say the P-47s are middle of the pack; you are conflating firepower/time with the absolute value of how much stuff you can blow up.

Here are the Zscores for gun destruction potential (score-average)/standard deviation:



Basically, this tells you how the aircraft of AH stack up against each other.  Anything above 2 or below -2 is a statistical "throw-away" score because it is such an outlier relative to the rest.

[druski85]

Anax I guess I'm still quite confused by this "gun destruction" chart.  Fancy as it may be, tell me this:
Would you rather have a Seahog or a Jug with a guns solution on you...all else being equal?  Lets say D200 and D600, in order to kill the "what is convergence?" argument.  I'd take a jug at both ranges, any day of the week.   

Is it a powerful weapon platform? Absolutely. Is it instant death like the seahog or mossi?  no. 

Edit:  The more I look at this chart, the more ridiculous it is.  I've now figured out that it is essentially multiplying damage per round x total ammo.  This is an almost useless stat, in my opinion. 
Typhie less lethal than a P-51B? Yak-T less than a 202?     You're a veteran of this game... be honest with yourself here.

[hammer]

druski, he is showing how much destructive power is carried over the entire ammo load. It is as much a function of how much ammo is carried as it is gun power. That is why the SpitV is so much lower than the IX, VIII, or Seafire with exactly the same guns.

Regards,

Hammer

[druski85]

Yea Hammer, I figured that out as you posted -- thanks.  Still don't see the real merit in this, though. 

[Motherland]

Gavagai, I have to say, that's the most useless graph I've ever seen. Whatever way it was measured, the results are completely unpractical.

[Anaxogoras]

That makes me laugh bubi, because I was told the same thing about ammo duration, e.g. it doesn't matter how long the 190A-5's 7mm lasts.  How much can you destroy with it?

Secondly, you are completely wrong that the results are not practical.  If I want to gun down town buildings, it tells me exactly which planes do well at it, and which do not.  For example, the Ta-152 may have great firepower, but if I only relied on that information I would be woefully wrong in choosing it for that purpose.

Btw, I discovered an error there with the P-51B...fixed.