Author Topic: Not seeing the forest for the trees  (Read 4209 times)

Offline grizz441

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2009, 06:02:58 AM »

Here was the reason for my post. I flew with the Rooks for the last couple of days as Ntrpd. Heck I even posted a saved mission and it said the mission planner was Getback.  :rofl :rofl :rofl So much for being incognito. I just wanted to see what it was like to fly Rooks. I didn't see any missions launched. I would see small groups trying to take a base but it is really hard with just 4 or 5 guys. Heck all you need is just one plane to up and take care of that. Never saw much in the way of team work. On the plus side I did see the rooks respond to defense really fast and effective. Wasn't like that when I was a rook before. You actually give check 6s  :rofl :rofl :rofl On the subject of missions I did see where rooks took 199 as I was logging. Another kind of peculiar thing happened too. When I suggested a mission one Rook Pm'd me to join him in a small mission to help take 131. I don't know why but it seemed that the word mission is a bad word and shouldn't be spoken on rook country channel.

Okay that was kind of long winded. The reason for post in short was that I saw Rooks losing bases left and right and then take 5 or 6 hours to get a base back (except for 164, nice). I just wanted the Rooks to look at things from a different perspective since I thought I might go Rooks permanently at the time. No malice was intended. I also realized that yeah I'm going to get zinged here. But maybe it would be worth it or maybe not. Everyone who posts is subject to ridicule of some sort. Some just lie in wait.

I was really disappointed that I didn't get to go on a mission with Dredger. I was looking forward to that.

I will say while I was there I helped Shawk and crew take a port and Target take a field. I tried to help JB21 but it was too late for success. I flew and gv'd as best I could and actually had quite a few kills for the short time I was there. At 98 I was dodging puffy ack, cv planes, pt boats, and HO's (they tried to HO me twice in one flight) trying to save that base. So were others. We saved it!


Such a different outlook on the game than me.  Seriously, I never know what bases are being captured, never run troops for my country, never take ord, never give wtg's when a base is captured, etc.  All I care about is finding an enemy and shooting him with a tater.  Sound selfish?  At the same time, I'm always trying to give check 6's to allies, clearing allies who need help, setting allies up for nice easy shots, staying out of allies isolated 1v1s, etc.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Offline bj229r

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2009, 07:26:37 AM »
Here's what the evolutionary perspective of the typical AH player looks like from my eyes. (Assuming he stays around for years) Each stage can vary in time.

Learn to control the aircraft>>Learn to Aim>>Learn some SA>>Help Friends and Country Win the War>>Get Bored>>Learn ACM>>Pwn T3h Noobz

Notice how 'Learn ACM' occurs after the WTW mentality in the evolutionary process.  You simply don't have many players who are very good pilots worrying about winning the fake war.  You'll get it some day getback. (maybe)
That was my evolutionary path, tho I'm still working on the last part
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline mbailey

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2009, 07:37:25 AM »

I was really disappointed that I didn't get to go on a mission with Dredger. I was looking forward to that.

 

Getback,  when you come back look us up. Dredger is busy now with real life things but is on occasionally. When you come back send me a PM and ill look for you when hes on. You could always look us up for FSO as well. Its an open invite.

Hope to see you back soon

Mbailey
Mbailey
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Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2009, 08:55:40 AM »
Such a different outlook on the game than me.  Seriously, I never know what bases are being captured, never run troops for my country, never take ord,

I love air-to-air, but bombing is something I try to keep in my repertoire.  For one thing, if you pork ords it's a great way to keep an air-to-air fight going, and it's also fun to put bomb the cockroaches that spawn near your base. ;)

I'm also assigned a fighter bomber, dive bomber, or even a level bomber from time to time in FSO.
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Offline Joker2

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2009, 09:07:59 AM »
I'm DONE with these forums the useless mindless chatter is like ch200 times 10 anytime anyone puts a chesive thought together that person gets ridiculed for his thoughts maybe someday you dopes will grow up and realize the world never mind AH does not revolve around you.

I'm sure someone will have something to say about this post knock yourselves out i will no longer read or be involved in it.

I just realized why in the first 5 yrs of playing this game i never came here.
I WANTED TO BE THE FIRST KID ON MY BLOCK WITH A CONFIRMED KILL!

Offline bj229r

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2009, 09:18:34 AM »
(Difficult to control bbs with horde like can be done in MA's :D)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline Getback

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2009, 09:48:58 AM »
(Difficult to control bbs with horde like can be done in MA's :D)

Oh yeah, See the 30 guys chastising me.


PS. Violated my no post rule.

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Offline Murdr

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2009, 10:33:39 AM »
maybe someday you dopes will grow up and realize the world never mind AH does not revolve around you.

LOL...Says Mr
I'm the J0KER of the Bish Jokers Jokers,
Name ring a bell now?

Offline Widewing

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2009, 11:00:41 AM »
I generally fly alone. I usually look for base getting whacked and head there. It's a rare occurrence when I find myself flying with a large group. If I can find a 1v1 or even 2v1, I'm usually content.

That said, I have no issues with taking bases. I have no issues with organizing missions (I never join them though). I have no issues with so called. "strategic" game play too a point.

10 to 15 guys trying to take a base is usually fun and often unsuccessful. Nonetheless, it does breed some good fights.

Where it breaks down is when the number of attackers climbs into the 30s, sometimes 40s. Few will rise to defend as they have no chance. Why bother? So, this clearly doesn't promote combat. Thus, a base is captured without much difficulty.

We also know that the bulk of these massive gangs of pilots are low level skilled players. They recognize that they can't defend themselves individually. Even small groups of 3 or 4 are virtually helpless against a top level pilot. So, their instinct is to mob up, which provides some level of relative safety and they will probably get a chance to do some shooting and bombing before they get whacked. If they are real lucky, they might get to shoot some planes on the runway. This isn't hard to understand.

Training these folks in the finer skills of ACM, gunnery and SA takes time. Trainers and many others will set aside the time for these players. Reality shows that it also takes time to learn these skills. Therein is the root of the problem. A significant percentage of the players have no interest in committing the required time to improve enough to be get to a point where they don't need the protection of numbers. They take the path of least resistance and effort.

A net result is that they lose interest. That type of game play is single dimensional and boring. Still, many are unwilling to apply the required effort to build skills. So, they cancel their account and move onto another game where they will repeat the entire process. I'm sure that this cycle accounts for the bulk of player turnover. A smaller percentage will make the effort. They will improve and begin to enjoy the air to air aspect of the game. Most will never be great pilots, but they are always striving. Those constitute the bulk of the game's long time veterans. Yet, they are still in the minority.

Grizz provides a reasonably valid evolutionary path (although I would push out SA nearer ACM):
Learn to control the aircraft>>Learn to Aim>>Learn some SA>>Help Friends and Country Win the War>>Get Bored>>Learn ACM>>Pwn T3h Noobz


What it doesn't show is how many never get past Win the War or Get Bored before Natural Selection overcomes them.

Aces High is little more than a microcosm of our society. In particular, young males. I see it all the time. If any task becomes too difficult, change tasks. That's much easier than overcoming the difficult. Most will take the easy way. Our culture promotes it....

Therefore, I believe that the problems within the game are systemic of society and our culture as a whole. HTC can take a path that makes tasks more difficult. This would probably increase player turnover rate. If it becomes harder to do; well, they'll go find something easier to waste their time with. Some increase in difficulty is certainly warranted, but is there another solution?  

That leads me to this: Game play is really up to the players. Our veterans need to encourage learning new skills. Simply lambasting them will accomplish nothing. They will resist simply because they're are being pushed. Don't push, encourage. Take a noob to the MA, wing with him. Show him how to have fun without a mob. Protect him, don't concentrate on getting kills, concentrate on keeping the noob alive so he can learn without being discouraged. Take him to the TA. Practice basic BFM and ACM. Organize fights in the DA with players of comparable skills. Mentor. Praise good effort (results are secondary and will eventually come). Don't belittle them if they don't grasp a concept. No one gets good at ACM without much failure first.

COs of big squads: Set up routine training. Utilize the Trainer Corps. Encourage your guys to learn (some won't, but try anyway). Let's do what we can to change the culture, and with it change the game's dynamic, even if only a little. There's too many fat, lazy kids and adults these days. Let's see if we can work some of the fat and lazy out of the game. I think it can be better than it is without HTC's intervention.


My regards,

Widewing

My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2009, 11:01:09 AM »
LOL...Says Mr

I was going to say something Murdr but I figured let him just go away.

Most guys who are good at this game know its just a silly game that we play in our Jam Jams but this guy really thinks he's something. :rofl
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Offline Getback

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2009, 11:40:02 AM »

Learn to control the aircraft>>Learn to Aim>>Learn some SA>>Help Friends and Country Win the War>>Get Bored>>Learn ACM>>Pwn T3h Noobz

The is not how it was for me.

Learn the aircraft, Learn SA, Learn ACM (Continuously), Learn war strategy, Help your country in any manner possible, and then put it all together and have fun.

I never ever got bored.  Mad, irate, ticked yes. Never bored.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 11:52:59 AM by Getback »

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Offline Murdr

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2009, 12:34:45 PM »
Allow me to point out something here. I see many rooks landing multiple kills continuously. Meanwhile while they are landing all these kills Rooks are losing bases left and right. So while everyone is getting high 5s they are losing the war. Basically they are not seeing the forest for the trees.

They really have no impact on overall game play since the enemy can up another cartoon plane.

Came across a related quote...

Quote
He defends no base, attacks no base for no other purpose than to furball/vultch

And it makes no difference what his reasons  are. If he is uping from a base and killing people, he is having an influence on the fight and field defense. If he is killing people at a field, he is influencing a base attack.


Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2009, 12:47:46 PM »
Gotta remove yourself from the "win the war mentality".I have to say in doing so myself has given me a breath of fresh air. The "teamwork" and camaraderie people share when they take on the task of winning the war is great when things are working their way by bases being taken and maps reset. What happens when the noob that drives the goon drops troops over the Field? The mission gets busted and what happens when another chess piece decides to horde back their bases denying the reset?...things get ugly, you start blaming eachother for not porking bases, that spies rule the skies and so on.Taking another approach to the game by learning ACM and trying to hold your own against numbers does provide you with the outlook that you blame yourself for any mistakes. Even if you want to believe that the one friendly didn't check your 6 or you got HOd..The truth is you put yourself in that position and its up to you to learn from it.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2009, 01:48:28 PM »
I wish I would have asked what does your country have to offer a new player? However, I'm done posting on the subject.

There are no countries....... just chess pieces so there can be three groups pto fight eachother. That was done figuring that no one would get attached to a chess piece..... oh well.
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Offline Getback

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Re: Not seeing the forest for the trees
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2009, 03:59:33 PM »
Came across a related quote...

And it makes no difference what his reasons  are. If he is uping from a base and killing people, he is having an influence on the fight and field defense. If he is killing people at a field, he is influencing a base attack.



Murdr, thanks for the quote from Hitech. I am 100% agreement with what that statement and stand corrected. I studied and studied what I said and could not come up with a rebuttal. I will tell that I had two thoughts at the same time and they both tried to fit into one sentence. Well that never works. However, read what Hitech said. It relates to base attacks. That my wiley adversary supports everything I and others have said. Base attacks btw generally involve captures, not always for sure. Since we have brought Hitech into the conversation, didn't he set the game up for winning the war and base captures. Isn't that part of the overall strategy. Don't furballers etc feed off the folks that attempt captures?! I think that was clever of Hitech to do so.

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