Not seeing the forest for the trees

[moot]

And at the lower scale, ganging up on a con that's already got its hands full in a 2:1 is no good. For all involved.

[NoBaddy]

Couldn't this be a good game plan? couldn't the ACM types as well as landgrabbers, and team oriented players, and even unskilled new players find more fun this way? Just a small change in how a "mega-squad" operates can increase the fun of many. Wouldn't this be better for the community as a whole?

The only flaw seems to be that it isn't an "easy-mode" strategy and taking risks in AH doesn't seem to be the norm anymore.

[Getback]

Right. You are a real rocket scientist/brain surgeon. You create a thread based on a subject that you know will be volatile and then when that everyone else is stupid and mistreats you??

Oh yeah, that's really a bright move. 

Up until the last few posts I have treated everyone with respect and courtesy. Have they done the same? Nope. Yes it is volatile. I was counting on maturity. Now that was foolish. I never called anyone stupid and until your post I never attacked an individual player or poster ever. So what do you expect when you attack me personally.

But for the record I am a pretty smart guy. I have a BS and a Masters. Sure doesn't make me a genius but it does show some intelligence. All my kids, I have 3, have two degrees and one almost has a 3rd degree. My youngest daughter was valedictorian of her high school, Suma Cum Laud of her college and graduated with a masters from Cornell University. (She got a full Scholarship) Do you think they got some good direction from me. They sure did. I taught my kids math and science from the time they could talk. My oldest daughter could say the most difficult words you can imagine before she could even walk. She's now a novelist. Albeit a struggling one. I think I have some legs to stand on here.

So you can roll your eyes and be condescending all you want. If you attack me you're going to get it back. It seems being courteous and respectful only make you the target.

BTW, in reference to my genius statement folks were taking tidbits from my post and adding additional wording to make it say what they wanted to or they were copying different lines from different segments to do the same thing. I don't think that adds much to the argument. Do you? Now where I was off I at least had the guts to say yeah, I was off there. I see that from no one else. I mean you just did it. You said I called someone stupid. I never did. Well actually your sentence was broken up a bit. But it seems to indicate that. I don't think these people are stupid.

[DMBEAR]

I have a BS and a Masters.

BTW, in reference to my genius statement folks were taking tidbits from my post and adding additional wording to make it say what they wanted to or they were copying different lines from different segments to do the same thing.

I have a Masters in BS. 

[Getback]

I have a Masters in BS. 

 

Apparently I working on mine.

[dkff49]

Sample of game play....

Bops load up a plan, execute it flawlessly, but DO NOT take down fighter hangers, nor do they set up the vulch. In stead, they allow a fight to develop, if one is to. Sure it makes the capture a bit less certain, but it does generate more fun for more people. Being the awesome squad that the Bops are, they should still be able to take the base, but more fights ensue, both side have fun.

Couldn't this be a good game plan? couldn't the ACM types as well as landgrabbers, and team oriented players, and even unskilled new players find more fun this way? Just a small change in how a "mega-squad" operates can increase the fun of many. Wouldn't this be better for the community as a whole?

This type of game play is exactly what I used to see the most of when I first started in AH about 2 years ago. It seems to be a little more rare now though.

I probably saw more of this before though because of I played mostly during daytime hours (off-peak) and now it is mostly night and early morning hours. None-the-less though if it had not been for the above type of activity creating large scale fights I probably would not have continued this long here.


I remember logging on and fighting over the same 2-3-4 bases for hours on end.

Huge furball halfway between 2 bases takes place and an occasional rook fighter gets through to kill town
eventually town is down and goon gets in base taken
knights continue to up from next closest base and new furball is created between there and the freshly taken base
knights end up sneaking a fighter through abd takes down town
eventually town down andn goon gets through
furball resumes in original position and the whole cycle continues for several hours


man I miss those days


in case any of you missed it though, I agree with you here fugitive this creates probably the best game play/ experience to be offered IMHO

[FALCONWING]

Sample of game play....

Bops load up a plan, execute it flawlessly, but DO NOT take down fighter hangers, nor do they set up the vulch. In stead, they allow a fight to develop, if one is to. Sure it makes the capture a bit less certain, but it does generate more fun for more people. Being the awesome squad that the Bops are, they should still be able to take the base, but more fights ensue, both side have fun.

Couldn't this be a good game plan? couldn't the ACM types as well as landgrabbers, and team oriented players, and even unskilled new players find more fun this way? Just a small change in how a "mega-squad" operates can increase the fun of many. Wouldn't this be better for the community as a whole?

You pretty much sum up our missions...we almost never hit fhs...vh at the most and we usually form a wall between town and the base....sometimes they up enough to overwhelm us and get our goons..sometimes they don't...if we never fought I am at a loss to explain our number of kills.....so YES it is a good gameplan...

Fug while I understand Hitech's point of view about multi-wing squads (megasquads), BoPs dont field more then 30 players on squad nite and often less (mid 20's).  Most of our nights are spent defending...we GV alot more on these multi-spawn maps...anyone is welcome to visit our channel and follow us around...they might be suprised...

[Animl]

If we're thinking for the same night and the same event in the MA,...

From what I saw, both Bish and Knits had massive hordes, fighting side by side in the same spot against rooks. And themselves too,.. but my point here is,...there were 6 soild blocks of enemy being thrown at the rooks in massive hordes from both sides. The hordes were so large, there was no other fight in the arena,.. out of 200 pile-its.

Why do I bring this up? Someone is actually complaining about all the kills the Rooks landed when they have the biggest target rich environment I ever saw in AH. That said,.. the ENTIRE Rook nation could NOT be on the offensive because it took all they had to even be on the defensive. How in the world can you just say they just gave up land. They didn't give it up,..and they didn't do anything different. Why should they lose real estate when they have the two biggest hords I have ever seen in AH taking it from them.

For what I saw,.. for the odds they were up against,... they played it liking vikings. With all that was against them they should have lost the whole country. They\We didn't. That said, I didn't really hear any complaining about being horded to death on their radio channel.

So are you complaining about their playing performance in a war,... or that you dind't do as well as you thought you should have? IMO if they weren't involved in the war, then you should have owned that entire country with the massive hordes that were thrown at them.

just sayin....might want to re-think this one.

[Murdr]

And since the gloves are off here. Murdr, I sure all that you do is greatly appreciated. I like the hints and tips when you log in and I do love stats. I'm an accountant. Still I've often heard that people often point to their on-line friends as the reason they stay.

Well, DUH!  How do you define your friends?  By squad?  By country?  Not me.  There are quite a number of people who I've had no squad affiliation with who I keep telephone contact with, or even have hung out with them in real life.  There's no requirement of a "mission" or "squad" to form a friendship.  I have an open invitation on a number of vox channels from being friends with one or more of the people that are on it.  If you are implying the goal of WiNnINg TEH WAr or sharing squad affiliation somehow has exclusive lock as a bonding experience, you are entirely incorrect.

You spent quite a few paragraphs arguing that somehow kills do not have an impact on gameplay, and then threw in a comment about friendships which was a real stretch for being related to the rest of what you were saying.

[Getback]

Well, DUH!  How do you define your friends?  By squad?  By country?  Not me.  There are quite a number of people who I've had no squad affiliation with who I keep telephone contact with, or even have hung out with them in real life.  There's no requirement of a "mission" or "squad" to form a friendship.  I have an open invitation on a number of vox channels from being friends with one or more of the people that are on it.  If you are implying the goal of WiNnINg TEH WAr or sharing squad affiliation somehow has exclusive lock as a bonding experience, you are entirely incorrect.

You spent quite a few paragraphs arguing that somehow kills do not have an impact on gameplay, and then threw in a comment about friendships which was a real stretch for being related to the rest of what you were saying.

I'm not sure of your point Murdr. I don't think people necessarily define their friendship by country, squad etc. Although those things do help build a bond and are more likely to lead to friendship. My favorite funny about this was in my AW days. One of the guys, Mikal I think, I used to duke it out with all the time. He was a great pilot in his own right. We were bitter adversaries. He came over to Bz and we started winging together. After a tirade of that man's incredible humor I said. "hey I never realized you had such a great sense of humor when you were killing me.  We became good friends. So yes being on the same country and winging help.

I stay in contact with a couple of rooks. I'm not sure if they are friends I hope so. Either way I think friendship does count in play and continuance.

Edit: Had to reread my post. No my line about teamwork and friendship is in line with the rest of my post. I mean it does influence the game probably more than people realize.

Also, after your post quoting hitech, I agreed with you that my statement was in error. But it also bolstered my point. And to which no one had the cajones to admit.

[Murdr]

Your not sure of my point?  You're the one that directed a comment at me on a subject I had said nothing about.

[Getback]

Your not sure of my point?  You're the one that directed a comment at me on a subject I had said nothing about.

Edited my post. Please read.

[Getback]

If we clear the subscribership roles, and all new bodies come in to play AH, let's look at "impact on the game".  When a player clicks into an arena, they're likely to be presented with a help tip that someone like Rolex, Hammer, or I wrote.  When they enter the arena, they are likely to be on a map that NHawk, NoBaddy, fester or others produced.  When they pick a plane, they have the option to select a skin that people like oboe, greebo, Fencer or others produced.  When they fly a plane, that planes model is likely affected by historical data that a player took the time to research and share with HTC.  When a player needs more than the hamster wheel of the MAs to hold their interest, they have the option of special events that were innovated and refined by the likes of DoKGonzo and Brooke, and played on terrains produced by Dux's terrain team.  So if two people were gone from the game tommarow, which of those two really had an impact on the game.  The one who gave freely of their time for the enjoyment of all?  Or the one who organized team work for a few?  One of those two had a tangable lasting effect on the game.

Here's your paragraph. Again, everyone should appreciate these efforts. I do. In fact I downloaded my stats tonight from your post in this thread. Still I think most would point to friendship as a reason they stay. But obviously what you and others do has an enormous impact as well and I refuse to discount that. Please note I am not putting you down here or slighting you as you have done me.


Edit: How it got to this level I don't know. Seems it is just kill the messenger by any means. Most are missing the thrust of my message and instead are pointing this line or that line trying to find any perceived weakness or make a weakness by adding some additional wording. Posting wars are hell.

Edit: Okay, maybe I should have added that in during game play friendship has the most influence. After all, my post is talking about during play. I would have thought I wouldn't have to get so detailed.

[Murdr]

It appears you are talking about apples and I am talking about oranges.  A number of things simply are in the game, or are the way they are because of the efforts of a very long list of individual players.  Hence an "impact on the game".  If those players were gone tommarow, their impact would remain.  Either hard coded into the game, or as an availible feature or activity.

AH is an online game.  There is supposed to be a social aspect as a feature of gameplay.  The social aspect is a constant.  I don't know why there would even be a question on such a given.  Hence the reply "Well DUH!".  An individual may socially organize others to make an impact on gameplay, and they may leave an indelible mark on the community, but the game itself is not impacted by them (on that basis alone).  If that person leaves another will take their role, and maybe even take on that role in their honor so to speak, but still that is in the realm of gameplay and community, and not "the game" itself.

So, I'll rephrase the question and ask again.  One player plays the game for two years, organizes missions, makes friends, has a hand in getting map resets, then leaves.  Another plays the game for two years, makes friends, and creates game content that HTC distributes, then leaves.  Which of those two left a lasting impact on "the game"?


Edit:  And by the way, I clearly made the distinction in the original post which you ommited when starting this thread

You changed one word here, which completely changes the subject matter from my point of view (arena to game).  Those are two distinctly different things.

[Getback]

It appears you are talking about apples and I am talking about oranges.  A number of things simply are in the game, or are the way they are because of the efforts of a very long list of individual players.  Hence an "impact on the game".  If those players were gone tommarow, their impact would remain.  Either hard coded into the game, or as an availible feature or activity.

AH is an online game.  There is supposed to be a social aspect as a feature of gameplay.  The social aspect is a constant.  I don't know why there would even be a question on such a given.  Hence the reply "Well DUH!".  An individual may socially organize others to make an impact on gameplay, and they may leave an indelible mark on the community, but the game itself is not impacted by them (on that basis alone).  If that person leaves another will take their role, and maybe even take on that role in their honor so to speak, but still that is in the realm of gameplay and community, and not "the game" itself.

So, I'll rephrase the question and ask again.  One player plays the game for two years, organizes missions, makes friends, has a hand in getting map resets, then leaves.  Another plays the game for two years, makes friends, and creates game content that HTC distributes, then leaves.  Which of those two left a lasting impact on "the game"?

Obviously the latter. Great question. Still though, which effects the actual game play at the moment. The one playing. (Not sure if that last sentence is clear)


I agree with the apples and oranges analogy.


PS. Honestly, I am glad you brought up the work that goes on in the background of the game. I don't think we, the pedestrian player, realize the efforts that many put into the game freely on their own time. Many are too quick to criticize those efforts and do not realize who is doing them. Also the copying of your post was only intended to make a point. Not as a condemnation. Actually it was useless information for my post once you posted what Hitech said. Still though I remain solidly behind my observations and my basic message and what Hitech said did support my opinion.

On your edit: Saw that.