Perceptions of fight quality

[Saurdaukar]

IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.

While it is true that many of the primary complaints existed back then, they need to be put into context.

Today, you hear the usual whines on 200.  Im a whiner, too.  Gang this, horde that, etc, etc.

15 years ago, you heard whines as well, but they occurred on a rolling basis.  As new players arrived, they were verbally policed and adjusted their behavior.  That particular player was, by and large, no longer the target of a whine.

Today, the whines are consistent because there is no behavior adjustment.  The sheer number of dweebs simply increases with each day because the current "play style" has, somehow, gained acceptability.  As a result, the same players are the targets of the same whines, over and over again.  Think of how many 'infamous' players we have who have clearly established scumbag reputations. Plenty.

As an ancillary issue, this is to say nothing of the pre-AOL pay-to-play days.  We're comparing todays environment with, in your example, a free version of AW.  In that vein, think of the automatic influx of tards that would show up for a free game and then consider that they were far more respectful of the existing game play style than today's $14.95 crowd.

  I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right 

We need more of you. 

As Scotch said, look us up.  My in-game name is in my signature.  When in any arena, type ".p Mazz" (without quotes and then followed by your desired text) to send me a private message.  We'd be glad to show you the ropes.

A new player with your attitude is worth ten times as much to the health of the game than any long-timer who has resolved himself to be a faceless drone amongst the masses of dweebery.

Welcome to Aces High.   

[Crash Orange]

IMHO this has nothing to do with the quality of the players, but with the quantity of players. We simply have a lot more kids on nowadays that grew up playing Doom and want instant gratification, and are not as interested in learning ACM.

Do you think this is because more players means a lower median age? Because 5-10 years isn't enough by itself to mark a generation change.

Anyway, most of us in our late thirties and early forties grew up playing PacMan and Space Invaders, watching MTV videos edited at what back then seemed like the speed of light, and being accused of wanting only instant gratification.  

[Vudak]

  I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right 

What's your in-game name, shppr01?  Take Scotch and Mazz on their offers, and know that I'll match it too...  Maybe sometime a group of us could  go with you to the TA or DA and let you sit in our airplanes while we show you a few basic moves to help you out...

You're the sort of person that we want to see succeed.  All you have to do is ask, we'll make the time.

 

[iTunes]

I was messing around in KI-67's on Saturday morning, dived down onto a typhie, he bolted like there was no tomorrow and then a pony decided to try and he ended up "extending" think by that point I had around 4 mins of gas left and then decided to hang out near the base where they were upping from, got a little to close to the ack and the rest is history- fun times

[Anaxogoras]

Anaxogoras/Gavagai,

What is you perception of the quality of this fight?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/idyznnmyzmf/perception.ahf

Probably not my best effort because I had barely flown the 84 then, but the only thing you would do was try to lure me into a high speed dive when my wings would threaten to break off!   I remember that fight; I had hoped you would fly to meet my attack instead of always diving away, which vs the 84 is the safest thing you can do.

I also remember that there were a number of rooks at the base you had come from, mostly pretty low, and I had the suspicion that you were trying to drag me low so that friendlies could come gang me.  If I'm wrong about that, then my bad.

[NoBaddy]

IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.

Yep, you were one of the "10,000 Dweebs" (I believe Mullah may still hold the copyright on that ) and with each expansion, the game play took a hit.

1) Anyone who complains about the behavior of a "newbie dweeb" who wouldn't fight when the complainer tried to jump him with a 262 or F4U-4 and a 5k alt advantage needs a good whap to the head with a clue-by-four. You think newbs flying uber planes is the problem? Well, when was the last time you saw a newb in a 262 or Tempest? Of course most of the vets don't stick with perked planes all the time, but if the newbie is getting slammed by much superior planes every so often, how can you blame him for taking the best ride he can, looking to fight at an advantage, and running when he doesn't have one? What else does every 262 do?

Nah, not me complaining in that situation and if I do...it's because the "newbie dweeb" is the one with the alt ad and the sooper plane.

2) ... why can't you beat them when they have alt and numbers?

I do...and your point is?

3) 90% of this stuff boils down to SA. SA was by far the most important skill for a pilot in WW2, every top ace I know of said it was THE secret to their success. I understand that the game is not a strategic simulation, that base taking is just a frame to make battles happen, but saying the game is all about ACM and 1-1 duels to the exclusion of everything else is ridiculous. Everything here - incoming hordes vs. a few defenders, getting bounced from 10k up, getting picked and gangbanged, enemies running away when they lose the advantage - is a tactical scenario that every WW2 pilot had to face, and dealing with them was every bit as much a part of the pilot's skill set as ACM and gunnery, as was teamwork. No, this isn't a war or even a war simulation, but if you're trying to simulate the tactics, skills, and technical challenges of flying WW2 fighters, 1-1 co-e duels are a poor way to do it.

I quoted this so that it would be here for the response below...

4) Because of # 3, I like the game the way it is now a heck of a lot more than I'd like it the way some here seem to want it - essentially, just a bunch of DAs. I'm glad to have a decent co-e 1-1 fight sometimes, but I'd get bored very quickly if that's all there was.

Hmm, I haven't seen anyone ask for a "bunch of DAs" or anything even close to that. I have seen plenty of folks ask for some relief from horde monkeys and suicide weenies...neither of which take ANY strategic or tactical skill (much less ACM skill) to accomplish.

5) Two things that are worse than anything anyone here is complaining about: alt-monkeys and whole-country gangbangs.

Alt-monkeys are worse because you can't avoid them. If you don't like 40-plane base captures, just fly somewhere else from where they're attacking. At any given time there are always going to be more people not doing that than doing it, and the ones doing it are all concentrated on 1 or 2 bases. But you can't avoid the alt-monkeys (there always seem to be 1 or 2 everywhere), you can't fight them if they won't commit, and you know if you try to fight someone else you'll just get picked. And who wants to spend 90% of their stick time just climbing, climbing, climbing? (Apparently some people...)

The country gangbangs are bad because they don't just offer an alternative to fighting, they make it all but impossible. It's one thing to fight against the odds, but another when you've got 2-1 odds or worse everywhere on the map and, as if that isn't enough, escorted raids of 3, 4, 5 Lanc boxes at 20,000 feet porking every field within 30 miles of the front. It's all fine getting a big local advantage, but what's the fun of making it impossible for the other side to put up a fight anywhere on the map? And in a 3-player game the whole ENY system is just pointless, because the advantage depends on the interaction of the countries more than the raw numbers for any one of them. Getting slammed everywhere while still having a 20 ENY is just ridiculous.

In many cases, what you are talking about above is precisely what people are talking about.

5) Vulching uppers is establishing local air superiority. Vulching people trying to land is just pathetic (assuming that "vulching" = going in on a new target, not finishing off someone you were already fighting). What are you hoping to accomplish?

Hadda put this one in since you put in two #5's. 

6) Has it occurred to you that that guy is "hiding in ack" because he knows if he doesn't he'll get slammed by someone from 10k up before he can get any speed and alt to fight? Because that's what happened to him within 10 seconds the last three times he left the ack? If you're complaining because you can't find anyone willing to enter a "fair fight," come down to his alt and burn off some e, then see if he'll come out of the ack. Or back off a couple of miles and let him come up. (And if someone in a faster plane goes through ack to lose you, all he's really doing is saving you both the bother of a 10-minute race you won't win anyway. If he's in a slower plane, you should have killed him before he got there, and if you don't want to deal with his ack, what are you doing so close it to begin with?)

Well, obviously it doesn't occur to them that if they didn't take off...there would be no one there to get "slammed from 10k". Anyway, experience tells me that as often as not, these folks are using the alt as a crutch.

7) Just don't tune to 200 unless you're amused by it. And if you do find it amusing, why complain about it?

It is amusing and I find complaints about 200 to be inane.

F### the forum. Just fly.

Perhaps you need a .squelch forums command.....

[Bronk]

Probably not my best effort because I had barely flown the 84 then, but the only thing you would do was try to lure me into a high speed dive when my wings would threaten to break off!   I remember that fight; I had hoped you would fly to meet my attack instead of always diving away, which vs the 84 is the safest thing you can do.

I also remember that there were a number of rooks at the base you had come from, mostly pretty low, and I had the suspicion that you were trying to drag me low so that friendlies could come gang me.  If I'm wrong about that, then my bad.

You are upset he wouldn't go for your rope. He is upset you wouldn't  go for his barrel roll overshoot.
IMO you held all the cards and didn't press the attack. IMO mind you.

[Anaxogoras]

Yes, I think I could have pressed the attack harder.  I had just climbed my way out of a tricky situation and was too scared of being brought low for his friendlies (who I couldn't see, but suspected were not far away).  Oh well.

[Wmaker]

He is upset you wouldn't  go for his barrel roll overshoot.

I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.

I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all.

[Bronk]

I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.

I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all.

Ahhhh haaaa!!!! So you were trying to drag down to friendlies.

[Anaxogoras]

I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.

I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all.

It's ironic that a film about which 3 of us have different perceptions is posted in a thread where the OP, who is also a pilot in the film, claims fight quality is largely a matter of perception?

Yes, that is ironic.

[Wmaker]

Ahhhh haaaa!!!! So you were trying to drag down to friendlies.

[Wmaker]

It's ironic that a film about which 3 of us have different perceptions is posted in a thread where the OP, who is also a pilot in the film, claims fight quality is largely a matter of perception?

Yes, that is ironic.

Actually, it's not just what you said in the original post. I just, at the time the film was rolling remembered many of your previous BBS-comments regarding the issue that you, on this thread, approach from a slightly different angle.

[Bronk]

Just trying to make a funny. It was Anax's perception you were attempting to drag to friendlies.
No slight intended..hence the smiley.

[Anaxogoras]

Actually, it's not just what you said in the original post. I just, at the time the film was rolling remembered many of your previous BBS-comments regarding the issue that you, on this thread, approach from a slightly different angle.

My opinions change over time.  I try to keep learning new things, I've been trying to be more aggressive as my ACM abilities versus superior-energy-state opponents improve, I've been trying new aircraft... If my opinions didn't change that would probably be bad.

We're both rooks right now, but I think next month our squad is going knight for a tour.  I'm getting the hang of the Ki-84 and I hope next time I give you a better fight than what that film shows there (and I won't be so paranoid about being dragged to friendlies).