Author Topic: The jugfire (Read 8862 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #45 on:** July 30, 2001, 06:14:00 PM »

Yup that was it. On the HO we collided, and shot each other up. I lost half my left wing and was forced to ditch. You then made a strafing run on my plane, and then fought another guy (I forget who) and shot him down then came back to strafe me again so I exited my plane.

I was in a 47D-25 though, not the D-11!

That was a fun fight, I think I had gotten two before you came in.
S!
-SW

eddiek · « **Reply #46 on:** July 30, 2001, 06:25:00 PM »

I stand corrected WMaker. So there was more than one engine available in the G10. I guess MY point was that as you said there were "totally different engines or tuned differently for different grades of fuel"....read around some and see what different states of "tune" the P47's were in when they entered combat.
And, FWIW, go read the AH chart on top speed.......the red line, WEP, passes the 450 mph mark......looks like about 452 if I was guessing?

All in all, you just supported my earlier remark that the LW gets whatever higher performance numbers were available......the others get what the factory put out, nothing more.

As far as "research", I have been buying all the books on 109s and 190 I can find....still ain't found one that lists a top speed of 452, and that is why I said what I did.

Urchin · « **Reply #47 on:** July 30, 2001, 06:25:00 PM »

Yea, I do remember that now, hehe. Prolly wasnt nice of me to strafe your downed plane, I was wondering why you were still there. The La5 is a pretty nice ride, I like flying it for a change of pace.

Actually- that brings up something I wanted to mention anyways... the Jug LOOKS well, like a jug. It is big and fat. But it also has godawfully big wings, so it can turn surprisingly well for all its size. However.. anyone that can hold a circle against a spit is going up against the least competent spitfire pilot the world has ever seen- or maybe one that lost both elevators and has to turn using the rudder

.

Someone else said (I'm to lazy to look it up)- that a competent Jug pilot may just turn around and bite your bellybutton (ok, I'm paraphrasing)- if you underestimate its abilities. And that is exactly right, but don't go giving it magical qualities because it is underweight by 400 pounds, well you can, but I'm not going to buy it.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #48 on:** July 30, 2001, 06:28:00 PM »

One thing should be clarified, the ONLY P47 model that is underweight by some odd number of pounds is the P47D-11. The NEWEST Jug, the Razorback.

The other two models, P47D-25 and P47D-30 are correct.
-SW

StSanta · « **Reply #49 on:** July 30, 2001, 08:59:00 PM »

Ok ammo, I guess I just woke up on the wrong side

.

I'll do my best to accomodate your request re: use of reserved words in the future; dinnae think much of it. Sorry 'bout that.

All: thanks for an interesting discussion. I've enjoyed it, even though i've only been lurking (won't talk since I don't know

)

[ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: StSanta ]

Buzzbait · « **Reply #50 on:** July 31, 2001, 12:58:00 AM »

S!

Here's a perfect example:

"-Our G-10 doesn't have "K-4s engine". DB605D-series of engines were installed in both variants (K-4 and G-10) of the Bf-109.

-German wartime performance sheet lists highest power output for the DB605D as 2200hp with MW-50. AH G-10 has DB605DCM engine which used MW-50 and higher octane (96/100 "C3 fuel") fuel than normal DB605D
which uses 87 octane (B4) fuel..."

So the Luftwobbles get the best possible version of the G-10....

Why then doesn't the P-47D11 come in the best possible version, ie. with the Paddle blade prop?

eddiek · « **Reply #51 on:** July 31, 2001, 01:12:00 AM »

Thanks, Buzzbait! My point exactly!

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #52 on:** July 31, 2001, 01:59:00 AM »

The anti-USA conspiracy of-course.

Hristo · « **Reply #53 on:** July 31, 2001, 08:37:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
All in all, you just supported my earlier remark that the LW gets whatever higher performance numbers were available......

So you say we have MW 50 and GM-1 for 190A series in AH ?

R4M · « **Reply #54 on:** July 31, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
All in all, you just supported my earlier remark that the LW gets whatever higher performance numbers were available......

pure and utter BS.

The Fw190D9 does not reach the 440mph at level flight it achieved with the external rack. AH's D9's top speed is around 430mph. There are 10mph missing somewhere.

.

Or, as you say that they always use the best numbers, we should have the Fw190D9 with C3 fuel, yes, that one wich made almost 400mph at sea level, right?...oh, but we dont...where is it?...

The Ta152H is clearly too slow at high altitudes, to the point that there was debate wether the GM1 was modelled or not. It is modelled but the plane is 20mph too slow at its best altitude.

The 109G10, you say, is 26mph too fast. Fine. Get it down to 426mph. But remember to bring the REAL 109K4 with 378mph at SL and 452mph at altitude.

The 109G6 in AH is the earliest possible mark of the G6s. if they use the best numbers ,then where does it has the ASM engine, the MW50 and the GM1?. Or the GM1 for the Fw190A8?....or the MW50 for the Fw190A and F?...

Your affirmation is pure roadkill.

Note: apart of the problem with the D9 and Ta152 being too slow, I dont say that the rest things I've mentioned should be introduced in AH. I simply used them to illustrate how false is eddiek's affirmation.

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

niklas · « **Reply #55 on:** July 31, 2001, 09:46:00 AM »

When the G10 has a 2000hp engine, then someone must explain me why it climbs only with 4600ft/min near sealvel.

Over 500hp more compared to a G6 or G2 should make more difference, even with 500lb more weight.
Or: 35% more power and 10% more weight, but only 10% more climbrate
There exit climb performance claims of over 5000ft/min for spit14 with same amount of power and 800lb more weight compared to the G10...

niklas

R4M · « **Reply #56 on:** July 31, 2001, 09:46:00 AM »

Just as a side note, I feel tempted to bring up the 1.03 all-day-long whines about the Fw190A5 being too light, because it was modelled using a captured G3's stats (and thus lacking the cowl MGs).

I think that the total weight it was saved by the MGs and ammo was around 300-400lbs (dunno exactly). But the rants about it were heard even on the moon.

Now we have a Jug 350lbs lighter than what it should, but, of course is nothing to be too much worried about, true?.

LOL...

straffo · « **Reply #57 on:** July 31, 2001, 09:50:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by R4M:
Just as a side note, I feel tempted to bring up the 1.03 all-day-long whines about the Fw190A5 being too light, because it was modelled using a captured G3's stats (and thus lacking the cowl MGs).

I think that the total weight it was saved by the MGs and ammo was around 300-400lbs (dunno exactly). But the rants about it were heard even on the moon.

Now we have a Jug 350lbs lighter than what it should, but, of course is nothing to be too much worried about, true?.

LOL...

try to think in %

Wmaker · « **Reply #58 on:** July 31, 2001, 10:36:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
I guess MY point was that as you said there were "totally different engines or tuned differently for different grades of fuel"

The tuning itself didn't raise the engine's power output but allowed the use of higher octane fuel which of course gave more power.
This was all done in the factory and it has nothing to do with field mods.

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
And, FWIW, go read the AH chart on top speed.......the red line, WEP, passes the 450 mph mark......looks like about 452 if I was guessing?

FWIW, go offline and take G-10 with 100% fuel load to 22500ft (altitude for the highest speed for G-10 in the HTC's speed chart) and see how fast you can go in level flight. I tested it and it's pretty damn close to 440mph within 2-3 mph. Please, post a film here where you maintain continious 452 mph with G-10 in level flight.

Quote

Originally posted by eddiek:
All in all, you just supported my earlier remark that the LW gets whatever higher performance numbers were available......the others get what the factory put out, nothing more.

AH's G-10 is what factory put out, nothing more. It's a stock G-10 straight from the factory without any field modifications what so ever.

---------------

1Wmaker1

Nashwan · « **Reply #59 on:** July 31, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »

While you argue about the very best modifications to your 1944 planes, I'm still waiting for a basic 1943 Spitfire.