Author Topic: Pyro, No C-hog perk!! (Read 3883 times)

Suave1 · « **Reply #60 on:** January 09, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »

What is the basis for the decision of making a plane a perk plane ? Is it that it is a really deadly ride, or is it how much a rarity it was before 1945, ie. ta152, gloster meteor . I hope it is the latter becuase there are some planes I would like to see introduced that were ineffectual fighters, but very few of them saw service, ie. p43, or boomerang .

Jimdandy · « **Reply #61 on:** January 09, 2001, 05:20:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jimdandy:
Well if that's true my system wont work. I'm not sure what they can do then.
Someone help me out. I'm still trying to build on my idea. Is a tour the time between map changes or the time between map resets?

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-09-2001).]

Ok I went back and reread the perk point system. I think another way to do it is make the perk points good for only one tour. If you don't spend the perk points you have during that tour you lose them. This would also act like a rolling plane set. The better planes wouldn't be seen tell later in the tour just like in the war. Those that didn't acquire enough points to get a perk would have a chance next tour. Combine this with what I said earlier and we wouldn't see these perk planes becoming a common sight.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-09-2001).]

Jigster · « **Reply #62 on:** January 09, 2001, 07:20:00 PM »

Said it before and I'll say it again...

the 1C never had a place in the game. The 1D came first and filled it's proper historical role. The 1C is little more then a gun option with a different paint scheme and slightly better preformence. The only basis of it's importance at the moment are the Marine markings. Other then that it had no reason to be here in the first place. It fills no roll that other planes, specifically the 1D in the US plane set, couldn't do already.

ALL other planes have a place. Removal or limitations on any other plane would impair the plane set. The N1K2 for example...it fills a major gap in the Japanese plane set and has no replacement at the present time. It has importance. Same goes for all the others. It's removal would also require those who use to fly it to learn another whole plane.

The 1C is that exception. Gun dependency aside, anyone who can fly the 1C has the same airframe with a different gun package already available.

I'm not going to say it actually got it introduced, but the 1C sure hurried along the inclusion of the Ostwind in the game after it's effects on armor.

j/k but prolly not far from the truth. The M-16 did fine until the 1C came around if anyone remembers.

I would be trying every possible attempt to prevent the perking of any other current arena plane, but the 1C just does not fill any role that cannot already be done with one of the current US planes. One might argue ground attack and tank busting, but the real life implementation of the 1C was as an air superioriy and pillbox/ship buster and never engaged Japanese tanks in any kind of numbers. The other three can already be done with the 1D anyway (well we don't have pill boxs).

I've yet to see someone (and that's not saying there hasn't been but I've sure not seen it) present a reasonable argument for not perking it aside from the domino theory, right of the customer, etc.

So...why should it always be available in AH? What gap does it fill? This may indeed by the Archilles heel of the great number of US planes in the game...it leaves little room for reasonable argument over keeping a over-used and overbearing plane available on a regular basis when so many can do the same thing.

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 01-09-2001).]

Jimdandy · « **Reply #63 on:** January 09, 2001, 07:48:00 PM »

Yep Jigster I agree. Perk it. It wasn't made in great numbers and, as you said, wasn't intended for the role it is playing, although I'm sure it did it at times. I will say it again. The perk point should not be bankable longer than one tour. Scale the points accordingly. This would bring in a kind of rolling plane set. People would bank there points tell the later part of the tour and you would start seeing the late war hot rods.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-09-2001).]

Jimdandy · « **Reply #64 on:** January 09, 2001, 07:58:00 PM »

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-09-2001).]

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #65 on:** January 09, 2001, 11:59:00 PM »

To all the chog flying drones, now desperatly squeaking bout the chog perk.....

stop whining! do you want cheese with your whine? whiners! crybabies!

Do any of these statmements ring a bell you chog cheerleaders? Now you guys are the whiners, how you like it?

Citabria · « **Reply #66 on:** January 10, 2001, 12:35:00 AM »

the chog lovers were 190a5 lovers in 1.03

<finger> you oportunist bastards.

Kirin · « **Reply #67 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:07:00 AM »

hehehe, feels good to be on the other side of the fence, aye, GRUNHERZ!!!

I think there is no point in arguing any further - all points have been made clear and I suggest we just wait and see what happens!!! HTC gave you the CHog and I am sure he won't take it from you... you have to shoot someone else down before you can fly your cannonbaby, we Luft-(wobbles, whiners, berries) cannot take part in navy operations - so what! Imagine which side you wanted to be better...

maik · « **Reply #68 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:28:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache:
Thats not the point maik. This aircraft is being perked because it has 20% more kills than any other. Can another frame do the same thing? Certainly it can. What then? How many perk planes we gonna have?

Sorry Apache, THAT certainly is the point here

. Anything else u guys bring up here is not proven. It's only Your expectations, or should i say somebodys hopes?

Fact is, the 1C IS unbalancing the Arena, so HTC had reasons for their decision. Why Don't youg guys just wait and see?

Be happy guys you'll have something were you can perkies for soon

.

I wouldn't spend 1 single point for this "1-ping-wonder-killer", but that'S because I prefer planes that help to develop my sorry flying skills

.

I'll only miss the points I get for killing them

.

Keep crying Kids, it gets interesting, hehehe.

Maik

[This message has been edited by maik (edited 01-10-2001).]

gatt · « **Reply #69 on:** January 10, 2001, 04:51:00 AM »

Well, dont be too harsch with our C-Hog friends now

BTW, life is good when you enjoy AH flying only 1942-43 aircraft/variants, eheh

Staga · « **Reply #70 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:29:00 AM »

I really cant see whats the point?
If They perk C so what? Theres still D, practically same plane with other guns only. Is it because those Hispanos why some players are crying now?
I used to fly G-10 and A-8 with 30mm armament. Maybe HTC could perk 30mm cannons in 109/190 and let LW fly with 20mm only? At least I dont mind if they do that...

So whats the problem again?
oh yes...
Continue whining please, its very entertaining to watch

Vermillion · « **Reply #71 on:** January 10, 2001, 07:50:00 AM »

The very good pilots won't see much difference at all between flying the -1C and the -1D.

Its the average and below pilots who rely on the snapshot ability of the cannons (a crutch?) that will see the difference. Its my bet that most of these types will not be flying F4U's of any type as often.

Will everyone move over to the N1K2? Some, but not the entire group. Its way too slow, it has a really poor roll rate, and therefore is much more of a target than a -1C. In my opinon it takes a better pilot to be really successful in a N1K2 than a -1C. The only people who have much to fear from the N1K2 are the dedicated TnB, dives into a furball and kills until they are killed type. If this is the case, then yes there's alot to be feared from a N1K2. Otherwise they're mostly just a target to any other latewar plane in the planeset.

Will they all move over to the Typhoon? Again, some will but not the entire crowd. Yes, it is very fast, a definite plus. But again it suffers in comparison to the -1C in sustained turn, roll rate, amount of ammo, and its now where near as stable a gunplatform as the -1C. While the Typhoon has the same guns as the -1C, it doesn't have the other attributes that the -1C has that makes it such an effective plane in the MA. True, the very good pilots won't see much difference, but the average pilot will be no where near as effective as he is in the -1C.

Yes, there will always be a "favorite plane" in the game. But I don't see anything else in the current planeset or on the near horizon that has the attributes to be as popular.

And this is good! Diversity is a good thing in Aces High.

I'm not a Chog hater, I'm not a whiner about the hispano's, or any of the other standard pro or con -1C's special interest groups. But I do know that I will enjoy an arena with increased diversity, that I hope perking the -1C will bring.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

hazed- · « **Reply #72 on:** January 10, 2001, 11:25:00 AM »

yeager i just dont understand why they dont listen to you.Seems perfectly clear.
Everyone, ive NEVER seen anything approaching a whine from yeager and i think what he is argueing for is in the interest of gameplay not some vindictive anti chog stuff.
some points for you all to remember:

you love the chog? you fly it well? then you can easily earn the perks to fly it!.
only newbie types will find it difficult which will reduce the numbers AND THE WHINES!
Hispanos are modelled with powerful ammo (he+ap) and evn though LW and others had mixed amunition types we have never been given them...but we havent demanded them constantly even though i feel it would be justified.As a LW flyer i feel we have had many of the plus points we should experience greatly reduced..reliability of 20mm ,extensive field conversions,availability(more manufactured than f4c anyhow) etc but we fly the planes cause we love them.
F4c pilots have nothing to stop them even though hispanos were notorious jammers, there was only 200 f4c's made, and you can fly from carriers.surely perking is justified.
Just give it a chance....stop bloody moaning youre so hard done by!
Just imagine your favourite planes were japanese or russian? you'd have 2 planes to choose from.they are the ones hard done by at the moment.When the axis have similar performance planes to the F4c's then unperk it.As it stands we have nothing that has so many plus points(guns,performance,ordinance loads,carrier ability etc etc).
play it fair and TRY the perk idea please.

hazed

[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 01-10-2001).]

Vermillion · « **Reply #73 on:** January 10, 2001, 12:45:00 PM »

Hazed, as I said, I'm currently on the "yes" side for making the -1C have a minor perk cost. We agree on that.

But please, don't spread half truths or outright inaccuracies as "facts" as is commonly done on this BBS as support for your position.

It only adds to the anger and animosity that is displayed by both sides.

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Hispanos are modelled with powerful ammo (he+ap) and evn though LW and others had mixed amunition types we have never been given them...

This is completely WRONG. Every weapon in the game is modeled with mixed ammunition, including the German guns (MG151, MGFF, Mk108). Its been stated by both Pyro and Hitech since this game has started. If you look at the hard data of the tests that have been done, you will also see what tends to be information indicative that the MG151 uses mine shells in its mix. No not exclusive mine shells, but thats reality.

Quote

even though hispanos were notorious jammers, there was only 200 f4c's made, and you can fly from carriers.

While Hispano's were early in their service career plagued with problems (a common occurence among military equipment) these problems were addressed, and by the time the F4U-1C was produced were considered satisfactorily reliable. It was not nearly the problem that the Luftwaffe contingent on this BBS would have you believe. Ever looked at the early service careers of guns like the MG/FF or MG151 ?

Another absolute inaccuracy, is that the F4U-1C was a land based only varient. I still don't know where this comes from, but its absolutely wrong.

I would have to check my sources when I get home to get absolute facts because my memory is bad today, but the first combat action that the -1C faced was off the escort Carrier "Sihtok Bay" (sp?) during the battle of Okinawa, where it intercepted and shot down several Japanese medium bombers on Kamikaze missions.

Logically (since the only action that the -1C saw was during the Battle of Okinawa and later in the Battles over the Japanese homelands) that most if not all the -1C's that saw action , did so from CV's.

Hazed, your a nice guy and I have only had good experiences with you when we have flown together or against each other in the arena. But please for the love of God, don't spread these statements as "facts", because they're completely wrong. It would be different if you didn't understand that, but I've pointed it to you before. Don't lower yourself to acting like RAM and Fishu, your better than that.

I just wish both sides would stick to the facts, not propaganda and rhetoric.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

fd ski · « **Reply #74 on:** January 10, 2001, 01:48:00 PM »

Main problem with C-hog is its huge ammo load. The pilot can spray and pray for two or three hits.

Tiffy will never be as popular - because of it's lower ammo count and need to be accurate.

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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters