Negative-G push? or "stick stir"?

[Shuffler]

Sol does not know anything..... every time.... and I do mean every time I fly with him, I have to explain the green side goes down... the blue side is up. Probably why he is so redfaced all the time. Too much time inverted. 

[Sol75]

Sol does not know anything..... every time.... and I do mean every time I fly with him, I have to explain the green side goes down... the blue side is up. Probably why he is so redfaced all the time. Too much time inverted. 

Doing it inverted is fun! and when in a '38, doing it inverted with twins is even better!

[CAP1]

doing it inverted with twins is even better!

double your pleasure double your fun?

[Wagger]

Question for the readers.  Who is first credited with doing and outside loop and when did they do it?

[Brooke]

Ernst Kessler during The Great Waldo Pepper.  (Couldn't resist -- it is a great movie.)

[Mace2004]

A great scene in the movie "Hot Shots" is when they're inverted and coins, playing cards, etc. all stick to the canopy.  

You'd be surprised at what's hiding in the cockpit even when FOD is a huge priority for aviation squadrons.  Sometimes it's a good idea to roll inverted and fly along so you can grab all the junk in the top of the canopy.  Screws, pens, tools, dirt, approach plates.  Once for me my radio control panel came out of the console as one of our maintainers failed to properly latch it in.  Luckily the cables weren't long enough to let it fly around but it did get my attention.

[Mace2004]

Hitech said something like "it's a simulation used to play a game."  That's why there physical limits on what the aircraft can do and what the pilot can sustain.  For my part, there's a big asymmetry in how black-outs can cause loss of control input and loss of view, but red-out never causes more than a half-second of inconvenience.

That's actually pretty accurate.  Too much G for too long drains the brain of blood and you pass out.  It takes time for your brain to re-oxygenate and begin to think again.  Negative G forces blood into the head.  It doesn't cause you to black out and you get your vision back quickly, there's no need for your brain to "wake up".  Sol has it right though that repeated pos/neg G would quickly exhaust and disorient you but in ACM you seldom do real negative G unlike in an aerobatic performance.

[Mace2004]

What you see in-game (particularly from Tempests in trouble in the DA lake ) is more like +6 or 7, then -4 or more (-Gs pegged on the meter, you can do it, tried it offline) over and over. Red out to black out in rapid succession. That realistic?

No, I'd say that -4G is not realistic at all and would probably knock someone out by hitting the canopy especially in WWII when they didn't wear the helmets we wear now.  Someone smarter than me can do the math but I'd guess that would be akin to dropping head first from 10 ft.  Also, I don't know the specs for WWII fighters but modern fighters are usually limited to about 3 to 3.5 negative G.  Alternating from +6 to -2 once or maybe twice would be more realistic.

[Anaxogoras]

That's actually pretty accurate.  Too much G for too long drains the brain of blood and you pass out.  It takes time for your brain to re-oxygenate and begin to think again.  Negative G forces blood into the head.  It doesn't cause you to black out and you get your vision back quickly, there's no need for your brain to "wake up".  Sol has it right though that repeated pos/neg G would quickly exhaust and disorient you but in ACM you seldom do real negative G unlike in an aerobatic performance.

The amount of neg-g that we pull in AH is enough to permanently damage vision.  Your point about GLOC from positive g's and the lack of something similar from negative g's is correct, but not quite on target to the point I was making.

[morfiend]

 So what would need to be modeled to more closely imitate the neg G effect?

  Maybe your head position wouldnt stay in or on the gunsight?

 As it is now the head position moves somewhat so after prolonged  or max neg G's
 your head position would take abit to settle. This would somewhat resemble the disorientation

   

[CAP1]

Question for the readers.  Who is first credited with doing and outside loop and when did they do it?

partial answer.......jimmy doolittle. i think it was before ww2, but don't recall the date.....

[Anaxogoras]

So what would need to be modeled to more closely imitate the neg G effect?

  Maybe your head position wouldnt stay in or on the gunsight?

 As it is now the head position moves somewhat so after prolonged  or max neg G's
 your head position would take abit to settle. This would somewhat resemble the disorientation

   

As it's been described to me, the visual field should remain reddened for longer duration of time.  Additionally, the visual field should also become blurred or distorted.

[Mace2004]

The amount of neg-g that we pull in AH is enough to permanently damage vision.  Your point about GLOC from positive g's and the lack of something similar from negative g's is correct, but not quite on target to the point I was making.

Aircraft (both real and cartoon) are capable of pretty high negative G but physical damage is unlikely unless you're bouncing off the interior of the cockpit like a pinball.  Typical aerobatic pilots (with good restraint systems) regularly do -3g with spikes over -5g during outside loops and we don't see eyeballs falling from the sky during airshows.  It sure as hell isn't comfortable but you get used to G's (both positive and negative).

Actually, let me add to that last sentence.  Negative G is never comfortable but once you're used to positive G it can be exilerating and it feels great.  Like another physical activity I can think of, you get sweaty, exhausted, and sassified.    

[Shuffler]

lol Wish I filmed bcadoo... he was in a trainer and jerking all over. Sad to have to do that in a bird like that.
My granddaughter could probably teach him a few things.... but alas from his flying I take it he's never been to the TA. 

[Sol75]

Aircraft (both real and cartoon) are capable of pretty high negative G but physical damage is unlikely unless you're bouncing of the interior of the cockpit like a pinball.  Typical aerobatic pilots (with good restraint systems) regularly do -3g with spikes over -5g during outside loops and we don't see eyeballs falling from the sky during airshows.  It sure as hell isn't comfortable but you get used to G's (both positive and negative).

Actually, let me add to that last sentence.  Negative G is never comfortable but once you're used to positive G it can be exilerating and it feels great.  Like another physical activity I can think of, you get sweaty, exhausted, and sassified.    

Quite true, ive spiked over -5g easily, and have sustained -3.5 during an inverted cuban 8
As for your last statement, SO true! My wife even complains I look more satisfied after flying sometimes LOL