Author Topic: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful  (Read 4186 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2010, 02:03:09 PM »
When I find someone new like jumper I offer to help him. If he feels he needs no help, I will go elsewhere to find a good fight.
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Offline TnDep

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2010, 02:10:01 PM »
No Pongo that's part of it, he's clearly at the disadvantage and does what he needs to do to defend. 


I think it would help a lot of people out if they thought about hoes  as a shot opportunity for the other guy. If you have someone coming in from your high 7 with a lot of smash you are going to do two things: 1) make him miss 2) start working to improve your position.  I try to treat every merge like this. If he insists on having his guns in my direction when we merge I take evasives, if his merge takes him out of line with mine to the point where he will not have solution I will work for it and take the deflection shot.

90%+ of the time I am hoed it is because I made a bad decision and accepted the ho, and nearly every time I see someone get hoed it is because they fly straight at the guy playing chicken and expecting him to hold fire.


Basically, roll, jink, dive, or scissor when you see the cannon bird coming a head on at you and 90% of the time you will here his guns buzzing as you go passing cleanly by. Making shots on a maneuvering target at a closure rate of 800 mph is pretty tough but if you are flying straight and level at the bad guy he is going to give you a face full.

I agree with you totally but a hurri2c which doesn't do any acm but turn around to ho/ram it's hard to advoid it.  This guy was not at a disadvantage and wasn't necc. to ho/ram but he done it anyway but I see your point.

When I find someone new like jumper I offer to help him. If he feels he needs no help, I will go elsewhere to find a good fight.

We had a very good fight going with a lot of experienced fighters but he was just interrupting a good fight and I got frustrated but it is what it is and I agree Shuffler helping people to learn is the only way to up the class of the game  :salute
~XO Top Gun~ Retired
When you think you know it all, someone almost always proves you wrong.  Always strive to be better then who you are as a person, a believer, a husband, a father, and a friend.  May peace be in your life and God Bless - TnDep

Offline FiLtH

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2010, 02:12:33 PM »
    The game you are talking about disappeared long ago and pretty much only exists in the DA or on a rare night when you meet a like-minded person in the MA of in a corner. It used to bother me, now Ive learned to just say screw it and roll with the punches.

YOU ARE GOING TO BE GANGED
YOU ARE GOING TO BE HO'D
YOU ARE GOING TO BE DISAPPOINTED AT TIMES

You cant let it get ya down. Fly your game, if others cant match it and have to do other stuff to get it done, they know.

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Offline TnDep

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2010, 05:26:01 PM »
 :salute Filth learning to not let it get to me it's all worth it when you have a great fight like me and pawz had today great fight pawz  :salute
~XO Top Gun~ Retired
When you think you know it all, someone almost always proves you wrong.  Always strive to be better then who you are as a person, a believer, a husband, a father, and a friend.  May peace be in your life and God Bless - TnDep

Offline Demetrious

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2010, 05:53:17 PM »
If you are complaining about people who do Head-Ons, you do not know how to merge.

The above is a hasty generalization subject to many exceptions, but in the majority of cases it needs to be said. The OP post describing this "Jumper's" engagement style- where he noses down and sprays if you try to dodge- indicates that he is flying "piper-on-target," all the way through the merge. The excellent ACM primer for online air combat, "In Pursuit," (which I'm sure most of us are aware of,) demonstrated neatly why an enemy that flies head-on, piper-on-target is nothing more then a very easy kill waiting to happen:



(I posted this fullsize to make sure everybody saw it; if a mod feels a thumbnail link is better, PM me and I'll fix it.)

I first tested this in IL-2 offline, where the AI on "Veteran" ALWAYS goes for a piper-on-approach, and it works flawlessly. On-line it does nearly as well. And remember what WMLute said:

Quote
You get to dictate your opponents 1st and 2nd move if you are smart about it and by doing so get to start the fight with a huge advantage.  Not only do you control their moves but by doing so you are putting them in a terrible position for the rest of the fight and pretty much starting the fight 1/2 way to their 6.

This man is right. Read his post again. In fact, I think he just summarized the strategy shown in the above pic.

HO's are just as much your fault as the HO'er, for rewarding such behavior. The only reason people get away with it is because so many others who had the fortune to go up against smart pilots who avoid HO shots learned to furball before they really learned to merge. If you're not punishing people for foolishly flying piper-on-target, it's your fault for not knowing how to merge.

This does not mean you're a bad pilot, or stupid, because:

1. The merge is hard, because it's highly dependent on timing; which cannot be taught, only learned through instinct and practice.
2. The merge is arguably the most crucial part of proper ACM, but your ignorance of this, while it is your problem, it isn't because you're lazy or lax. In case you didn't remember, look down- you're sitting at a computer playing a game with cartoon planes where no lives are in danger either from bullets or pissed off crew chiefs. It's not the Air Force academy; you had no way of expecting this much nuance. I learned to love these games starting with Aces Over Europe and Red Baron and I was quite the HURR LEFT-HAND-TURN = DOGFIGHTAN for longer then I'd care to admit. This brings me to my third point:

HOers only learn not to HO when you blow their tails off.

The best way for HOers to appreciate that HOing is not where it's at is for you to show them- with your first yard or two of ammo. After it happens the fourth or fifth time, they'll start to get the picture. And then they'll learn the value of the merge- and start to appreciate that they're getting into a game which is far more interesting then either JOUSTING TOURNAMENT or MERRY-GO-ROUND. Even 14 year olds who just want to hop on for twenty minutes of mindless BLAMMO BLAMMO can quickly appreciate this. They'll then go on to use their new trick against their fellow n00bs.

If a n00b can get away with an HO 9 times out of 10, then it's a valid tactic for him. It works, doesn't it? What else do you want from a tactic? You change that, and you'll remove any incentive for HOs in the first place.

Naturally, all my above ranting is fine and good ONLY if the arena isn't so full of new guys that it ends up being newbie vs. newbie jousting in most areas, with the more experienced sticks too outnumbered to make a difference. I personally don't think the game has been irrevocably lost to squeakers on their 2 week trials; but if that's really the case, then stick to the Dueling Arena, skirmishes between squadmates, or the like.

There are many "griefer" tricks in this game (as with all online games) that you have relatively little control over. HO's are not one of them.

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2010, 06:33:31 PM »
I didn't read this whole thread but the first thing I did was go look at Jumpers score.  He' apparently only been playing since January and still hasn't put in five hours total.

TnDep, how good were you in your first 5 hours?  Surely you've played enough to avoid a n00b in a Hurri.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Changeup

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2010, 08:06:21 PM »
When I find someone new like jumper I offer to help him. If he feels he needs no help, I will go elsewhere to find a good fight.

Right after Shuffler kills his ass...Shuffler is like the Raid commercial:  "Shuffler kills HOers DEAD"

Changeup

(Dear Jesus, please do NOT let me draw Shuffler, Lute, TnDep, Grizz, JB11, Bruv, Batfink, Kappa, Krupnski, SkyRock, JunkyII or, well anyone that has played the game longer than 1 month, amen)

Dear Baldeagle, I would like to draw xxxJCxxx in the first round...he works at our company and has to let me win or I will talk smack about him to his boss and ruin his life.  Thank you for your time and  :salute, your the greatest organizer of all time....and I really mean that.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 08:40:11 PM by Changeup »
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline maus92

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2010, 08:26:57 PM »
OK, I'll jump in and I expects to be singed.  I generally fly spits -8 -9 and Seafires.  Nimble planes, but not particulary fast or rugged.  Spits attract HO'ers like flies on, um yea.  Needless to say, they are a bit delicate: paper wings and tinfoil oil coolers.  Those attracted generally fly P-51's or Bf-109G or K 30mm lobbers.  I think that most of the aforesaid pony pilots are noobs, while I suspect that the Bf-109 pilot are vets who can't wait to hit you in the face with a tater.

OK, pile on.
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Offline 321BAR

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2010, 09:39:43 PM »
I didn't read this whole thread but the first thing I did was go look at Jumpers score.  He' apparently only been playing since January and still hasn't put in five hours total.

TnDep, how good were you in your first 5 hours?  Surely you've played enough to avoid a n00b in a Hurri.
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Offline Demetrious

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2010, 10:06:25 PM »
OK, I'll jump in and I expects to be singed.  I generally fly spits -8 -9 and Seafires.  Nimble planes, but not particulary fast or rugged.  Spits attract HO'ers like flies on, um yea.  Needless to say, they are a bit delicate: paper wings and tinfoil oil coolers.  Those attracted generally fly P-51's or Bf-109G or K 30mm lobbers.  I think that most of the aforesaid pony pilots are noobs, while I suspect that the Bf-109 pilot are vets who can't wait to hit you in the face with a tater.

OK, pile on.

Why would you get piled on? It sounds about right. I know we all complain about the "Runstangs," but I can't blame newbies who refuse to piss away their E to commit to difficult ACM- it's sensible, after all. Sadly they don't know any of the techniques of E-fighting that gives them good angles, so the best they can do is come back from 2k for another head-on "one pass, haul ass."  :banana:

Offline TnDep

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2010, 11:45:05 PM »
I didn't read this whole thread but the first thing I did was go look at Jumpers score.  He' apparently only been playing since January and still hasn't put in five hours total.

TnDep, how good were you in your first 5 hours?  Surely you've played enough to avoid a n00b in a Hurri.

I put in 5 hours a day and still aren't any good so I know I wasn't any good my first 5.  I got a lot to learn I need a teacher  :D advanced trainer's please reply
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When you think you know it all, someone almost always proves you wrong.  Always strive to be better then who you are as a person, a believer, a husband, a father, and a friend.  May peace be in your life and God Bless - TnDep

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2010, 11:48:42 PM »
(Dear Jesus, please do NOT let me draw Shuffler, Lute, TnDep, Grizz, JB11, Bruv, Batfink, Kappa, Krupnski, SkyRock, JunkyII or, well anyone that has played the game longer than 1 month, amen)

Dear Baldeagle, I would like to draw xxxJCxxx in the first round...he works at our company and has to let me win or I will talk smack about him to his boss and ruin his life.  Thank you for your time and  :salute, your the greatest organizer of all time....and I really mean that.

Wrong thread but thanks.  Could you contact prospective employers and tell them that?  If not and for that error in judgement posting in this thread you might draw Shuffler, Lute, TnDep, Grizz, JB11, Bruv, Batfink, Kappa, Krupnski, SkyRock and JunkyII.   :D
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2010, 12:07:10 AM »
No one really dies, planes are free.  Good fights can be found.  The comments made now are the same that were made about my 'generation' of cartoon pilots when we wandered in to Airwarrior.  The old guard figured we'd totally destroyed the game then and it was 1996. 

If you get that wrapped up in the playing of the game, it's time to step back and get your perspective. 

We constantly argue about how the game is doomed and how it should be played.  Yet here we still are :)
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2010, 07:39:05 AM »
Wrong thread but thanks.  Could you contact prospective employers and tell them that?  If not and for that error in judgement posting in this thread you might draw Shuffler, Lute, TnDep, Grizz, JB11, Bruv, Batfink, Kappa, Krupnski, SkyRock and JunkyII.   :D

My thoughts were the need to market to you across multiple spectrums to have the maximum impact on your decision.  With all the fine sticks commenting on this thread, including you, it would be a terrific secondary informational medium to reach my target audience......YOU.   :rofl

You see an error in judgement, I see a marketing plan to try to get me past the first round for once....Please include Dodger in the above referenced list....thank you.

Changeup
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline coola4me

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Re: Some days are better then others but tonight was awful
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2010, 01:47:39 PM »
I didn't read this whole thread but the first thing I did was go look at Jumpers score.  He' apparently only been playing since January and still hasn't put in five hours total.

TnDep, how good were you in your first 5 hours?  Surely you've played enough to avoid a n00b in a Hurri.

This may make it worse but hes actually not a (time in game) noob! He flew under a different name from tour 86 to tour 113. Went on haitus and came back with his current name in tour 120! Just FYI!
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