Author Topic: Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.  (Read 11998 times)

Offline Karnak

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« on: March 21, 2000, 03:04:00 PM »
Here are the total scores and kill ratios for each aircraft in Tour 2.  I calculated the kill ratios by taking the Plane Type against Any (which means all other planes) and then dividing the number of kills by the number of deaths.  I then rounded the result to the nearest hundredth.
Make your own judgement about the results, but I think they speak for themselves.

The F4U-1C has 8839 kills and has been killed 4411 times.  2.00 to 1

The Bf 109G-6 has 959 kills and has been killed 761 times.  1.26 to 1

The Fw 190A-8 has 1761 kills and has been killed 1472 times.  1.20 to 1

The Bf 109G-10 has 2876 kills and has been killed 2492 times.  1.15 to 1

The P-51D has 4757 kills and has been killed 4334 times.  1.10 to 1

The C.205 has 2175 kills and has been killed 2122 times.  1.02 to 1

The Spitfire Mk IX has 9111 kills and has been killed 8998 times.  1.01 to 1

The N1K2 has 3704 kills and has been killed 3686 times.  1.00 to 1

The P-38L has 6076 kills and has been killed 6287 times.  0.97 to 1

The Bf 109G-2 has 475 kills and has been killed 507 times.  0.94 to 1

The La-5FN has 755 kills and has been killed 881 times.  0.86 to 1

The Spitfire Mk V has 5618 kills and has been killed 6663 times.  0.84 to 1

The B-26B has 1716 kills and has been killed 2481 times.  0.69 to 1

The Bf 109F-4 has 290 kills and has been killed 434 times.  0.67 to 1

The F4U-1D has 361 kills and has been killed 549 times.  0.66 to 1

The B-17G has 910 kills and has been killed 1731 times.  0.53 to 1

The C-47A has 173 kills and has been killed 1529 times.  0.11 to 1

Now that you've looked them over, I'll say what I think.
Something is either over-modeled about the F4U-1C or it shouldn't be included in the current plane set.  Having a 0.74 greater kill rate than its nearest competitor certainly points to it as being the Ubėr-plane, bar none.  I feel that either there should be:  A) an Ubėr-plane for each nations plane set, or better yet:  B) NO UBĖR-PLANES at all.
If course A is followed, then we should get our Ta-152s (like the F4U-1C it saw insignificant or no combat), Spitfire Mk F.21s (like the F4U-1C it saw insignificant or no combat), A7M3 Reppus (like the F4U-1C it saw insignificant or no combat) and the Russian and Italian equivalents.
If course B is followed (unlikely) then the F4U-1C should be removed until the Korean War theatre becomes available.

Just my 2 cents.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 03-21-2000).]
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Offline Ripsnort

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2000, 03:07:00 PM »
<Ripsnort pulls up a chair, waits for  Torque , Cannon, and other "One-plane Wonders" to show up to light  the fire for the BBQ>

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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-21-2000).]

Offline Karnak

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2000, 03:08:00 PM »
Heh.  Toast away guys.  

Sisu
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-towd_

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2000, 03:30:00 PM »
really get rid of it preferably cant figure out how a ground attack plane handles like a zeke almost to 150 kn

Offline AKDejaVu

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2000, 03:33:00 PM »
Sigh.

Lets put some things into perspective.

I want to go on a patrol mission for bombers.  I decide to patrol the nw border.  I load up an F4u-1c with a drop tank and 100% fuel and fly away.  Eventually, I encounter the inevitable bomber and take him out.  I'm down to 100% fuel by now.  I'm also at 30k.

The patrol mission is pretty much over, but I see we are re-taking a field.  I didn't have to use much ammo on the lone b-26 so I decide to drop and vulch when the "ack down" message appears.  Nobody is defending the field except for one pilot.  Any guesses as to what he is flying?  You got it.. a spit.  I vulch the same lone pilot at a base 8 times.  That's and 8:0 record against the spit 9 in one sortie.  Does that make the F4u-1C an uberplane?

I notice that one of our fields is being attacked.  I decide that it would take too long to spawn from a nearby field and climb to alt in an F4u-1C, so I decide to come up at the base being attacked.  Guess what I sellect?  A spit.  I get airborne and manage to down one of the attackers before being bounced by another... Unfortunately, the attacker does not immediately exit the aircraft. I was killed with a pilot kill.  Now, my record in the spit that sortie: 0:1.

The Spit is the uber plane of the arena.  Given equal terms on engagement, it can hold its own against any other aircraft.  It has excellent lethality capabillities, an excellent turn rate, an excellent climb rate, and above average acceleration.  If you make a mistake against one, you are dead.

People simply fly the Spit, when no other aircraft stands a chance.  Unfortunately, in most of the situations.. as spit doesn't either.

A poll for those that love to vulch bases:  1) What plane do you do it in.  2) What plane do you shoot down most.

A poll for those that respawn frequently despite the odds to defend a base: 1) What plane do you chose most often.  2) What plane do you see vulching most often.

You don't use an F4u-1C to defend a base at low alt because it is a dog to fly low.  Some can do it, but most cannot.  You use the Spit, because it can do most everything better than the F4u-1C.  If you don't believe this, then you are HO'ing F4's too much and need to refocus your strategy.

I fly the F4u-1C.  I know what it can and can't do.  It is not an uberplane.  As a result, I have to be 10 times more carefull when I fly it.  I select targets more carefully and make sure I keep as much alt and speed as possible.  I am much more relaxed when I fly a Spit.   You simply don't need to pay as much attention there.

AKDejaVu

Offline Karnak

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »
Obviously from the numbers the Spit is the most, or 2nd most common aircraft in the arena, the other is the F4U-1C.

The one possible flaw in your argument is that you say the F4U-1C can't fight down low, but you killed 8 Spits down there.  Now I know you started with the energy, but by the 5th or 6th Spit you must have been running low or you would have given the launching Spit too much time to get set up.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 03-21-2000).]
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Offline Trell

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2000, 04:14:00 PM »
"sits down counts from 10 to 1 slowly"
never mind  im going to be nice today

but i am for keeping the F4u-1c

Offline Minotaur

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2000, 04:21:00 PM »
Hmmmm....

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Offline mx22

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2000, 04:30:00 PM »
Ok, I'm really, really tired of discussions of F4U-C1. Each and everyone of them simply repeats the previous one...
I say, let those vulchers fly their beloved F4U-C1. Plane has nothing to offer, but its guns. When I see any F4U below me, it looks to me like a huge holiday turkey waiting for me to slice off a piece of it. I love gifts like this  

mx22

Offline danish

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2000, 04:46:00 PM »
Karnak dosnt it strike you that the stastics you base your argument on have FwA8 and 109G6 as No 2 and 3?

Not that I'd mind a slight downgrade of the strongest guns mind you.

danish

Offline Karnak

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2000, 05:04:00 PM »
Danish, yes it does, but I was also noting how much of a drop they are from the number 1 position.

Sisu
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Offline -ammo-

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2000, 05:12:00 PM »
Ok is exactly right.

Karnak-- everytime he dives and makes a gun pass--He climbs back out and puts more "E" in the bank.. This the way a F4U should be flown. HOwever--the F4U had a great immediate turn rate at high speed. Mind you not a SUSTAINED turn rate. When ti gets slow it is a dog.

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Offline weazel

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2000, 05:17:00 PM »
Dump it,at the moment the F4U1c is unbalancing and adds nothing to the sim-except quakeish behavior. (I.E.-spray and pray H/O)

Offline fd ski

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »
If you think spit 9 is bad just wait till they make real 1944 spit   Spitfire XIVe  



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Offline humble

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2000, 05:28:00 PM »
The Hog is a pure HO/front aspect killing machine. Flown as a B&Z/E fighting platform it should rack up a great kill ratio. After all it's real world 11 to 1 kill ratio is 2nd best in WW2 among US planes. Combine that with the variety of lag/net issues and the way that the AH FE computes kills and the 1c is probably under where it should be statistically.

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