Author Topic: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules  (Read 2258 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2010, 12:13:14 PM »
its not impossible, its just requires some appreciation of the effects of scale.

If it was just scale it would be easy. Add red tape and money under the table, etc.
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Offline Raptor

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2010, 03:52:04 PM »
Progressivism is killing America! :noid

Offline Tigger29

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2010, 04:00:30 PM »
he told me when we talked of his trip to the hospital that they prescribed him a weeks worth of a morphine like (i don't know meds so i don't remember the name) pain killer for a cut that he told me didn't bother him a bit without the medication. he said that he had filled the prescription and the bill he had to turn over to his work was over $200.00 for that one prescription. now keep in mind, that pain management drug does absolutely nothing to help promote healing or curing of the underlying cause, the gash. it only "treats" a symptom, the pain.


This is another seriously threatening behavior pattern the American public has fallen into, and it is summed up into the following saying, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD".  Simply put, if your friend's injury didn't bother him a bit without the medication, then why did he fill the prescription to begin with?  For a large company they might not care so much, but if he worked for a small company, he could have went to his boss and said "Listen.. they wanted me to fill this $200 pain medicine prescription but I wasn't hurting so I didn't bother" and you know what?  Next time things get tough and layoffs go around, there's a good chance they'll remember just that and keep you on for that reason!  It's all about respect here.

The biggest problem with this country is the mentality of the people... plain and simple.  Yes, a lot of us here have the right attitudes about things.. but most people out there.. well they don't use their noggins and reject common sense.  If someone is overweight and they get diabetes they will often opt to take a series of pills and shots to control things rather than take the hard approach and start some kind of fitness program!  Yes.. there are people with serious problems that require serious medications to address this, but probably 90% percent of people out there take drugs they don't need.  Why?  Because they act like sheep.. doing something because their doctor told them to rather than doing some research of their own and learning on their own.  I'm not saying Doctors are naturally evil, but there are good ones and bad ones but it all comes down to taking care of yourself.

"Just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD"... kind of funny.. it's a line I've told my dad a million times and he still refuses to listen.  He has three brothers that are well off that are constantly trying to out-do each other with new furniture.. fixtures.. appliances.. and what not.  Every time they replace something, they give my dad their old one.  Because of this, my dad has a house PACKED FULL of mismatched furniture.  He has a garage PACKED FULL of light fixtures, shower doors, medicine cabinets, windows, curtains, bbq grills.  It is all functional and a lot is in good shape, but none of it I would consider to be "perfect" and almost none of it he really has any business having.  He lives in a rental house and can't even install most of the stuff he gets!  So it all sits in the garage and the basement and the back porch and when I ask him why he keeps taking in all of this stuff that he's never going to use he says "It was free!"  Then we get in a bit of an argument about it (especially when he tries to shove some of it my way) and the subject gets changed.  I'm afraid he's going to be on that show "Hoarders" before too long LOL.

Offline ozrocker

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2010, 04:02:03 PM »
Not progressive, one of man's oldest (is vice the word I want here) is greed, self-interest.
                                                                        
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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2010, 04:24:07 PM »
Raptor you have to realize that right now there is a sort of Civil War brewing in the USA.  Part of the country wants the Federal Government to take control of our everyday lives, and part of the country does not.  I happen to believe that the Federal Government has no business whatsoever being a part of my everyday life.  I firmly believe that this country was formed primarily with that ideal in mind, and this is shown time and time again in the US Constitution.

Because of this, it does not matter how "cheap" Federal healthcare could be.. or how "efficient" it could be.. none of this matters.. period.  The Feds could come up with the most thought out, masterful plan in the world and I still wouldn't support it.  Now, when you add in how expensive and inefficient proposed Federal healthcare plans are.. it just makes the joke that much more laughable.  Yes, the healthcare industry needs some reworking.. nobody is arguing that, but I firmly believe that it would be much more beneficial for the Feds to use the FDA to impose more rules on the pharmaceutical companies.  There are ways of fixing this without the Feds taking it over completely.

I do believe that in general, the system isn't broken.  The way it is now, anyone can walk in from the streets (legal or not) and get care at any hospital.  At my work, I have some of the best insurance, it is reasonably priced for myself AND my employer... and this is a no deductible and no lifetime limit kind of deal.  As for pre-existing conditions... well I think it's blown a little bit out of proportion... YES I know.. the people fighting it aren't agreeing with me, but this isn't so much of a problem with employer supplied insurance... mostly only applies to private insurance policies.. but there are ways of fixing this without taking it over altogether.  I had back issues in the past with different insurance.. I still have back issues now.. I've never had an insurance claim rejected because of it.

There are also programs that have been in place for decades to help out low income families with healthcare services.  Heck, my ex- sister in law purposely left her own daughter off of her own insurance plan (through her work) so she could lie to the government about her income and get welfare, food stamps, WIC, and free healthcare for her daughter.  It was blatant abuse of the system and ticked us off profoundly... but that's a different story altogether.  The simple truth is that there are not that many people on the streets who are dying from the flu because they couldn't get treated.  The few that this DOES happen to refuse to see a doctor in the first place.

What I fear most is that the US will succumb to these people who think the government should be obligated to supply everything they need in life, and in exchange we will become powerless as a nation to stop any of it... and our country will become exactly what it was that we fought against in the first place.  I have always been amazed at how quickly we grew as a nation... both in size AND in power... in such a relatively small period of time (couple hundred years).  Something had to have fueled all of this... and that something is being lost a little bit every day, right out from under people's noses.. and it's ALMOST to the point that people don't even know what that something is anymore.  That something is self-dependence.. both as a nation and as individuals.  We ARE the USA, and until people realize this once again it's going to be a hard uphill battle...

Offline CAP1

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2010, 04:40:00 PM »

This is another seriously threatening behavior pattern the American public has fallen into, and it is summed up into the following saying, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD".  Simply put, if your friend's injury didn't bother him a bit without the medication, then why did he fill the prescription to begin with?  For a large company they might not care so much, but if he worked for a small company, he could have went to his boss and said "Listen.. they wanted me to fill this $200 pain medicine prescription but I wasn't hurting so I didn't bother" and you know what?  Next time things get tough and layoffs go around, there's a good chance they'll remember just that and keep you on for that reason!  It's all about respect here.

The biggest problem with this country is the mentality of the people... plain and simple.  Yes, a lot of us here have the right attitudes about things.. but most people out there.. well they don't use their noggins and reject common sense.  If someone is overweight and they get diabetes they will often opt to take a series of pills and shots to control things rather than take the hard approach and start some kind of fitness program!  Yes.. there are people with serious problems that require serious medications to address this, but probably 90% percent of people out there take drugs they don't need.  Why?  Because they act like sheep.. doing something because their doctor told them to rather than doing some research of their own and learning on their own.  I'm not saying Doctors are naturally evil, but there are good ones and bad ones but it all comes down to taking care of yourself.

"Just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD"... kind of funny.. it's a line I've told my dad a million times and he still refuses to listen.  He has three brothers that are well off that are constantly trying to out-do each other with new furniture.. fixtures.. appliances.. and what not.  Every time they replace something, they give my dad their old one.  Because of this, my dad has a house PACKED FULL of mismatched furniture.  He has a garage PACKED FULL of light fixtures, shower doors, medicine cabinets, windows, curtains, bbq grills.  It is all functional and a lot is in good shape, but none of it I would consider to be "perfect" and almost none of it he really has any business having.  He lives in a rental house and can't even install most of the stuff he gets!  So it all sits in the garage and the basement and the back porch and when I ask him why he keeps taking in all of this stuff that he's never going to use he says "It was free!"  Then we get in a bit of an argument about it (especially when he tries to shove some of it my way) and the subject gets changed.  I'm afraid he's going to be on that show "Hoarders" before too long LOL.

he filled the prescription, because he sold it.

 when i've had work done on me that they felt i was going to need pain killers for, i was prescribed oxycotten. they told me to get that filled, 'cause i'd need it.
 i didn't need it, and i can't tell you how many people tried to buy that crap from me. i shredded the prescription.
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Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2010, 06:02:29 PM »

This is another seriously threatening behavior pattern the American public has fallen into, and it is summed up into the following saying, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD". Simply put, if your friend's injury didn't bother him a bit without the medication, then why did he fill the prescription to begin with?  For a large company they might not care so much, but if he worked for a small company, he could have went to his boss and said "Listen.. they wanted me to fill this $200 pain medicine prescription but I wasn't hurting so I didn't bother" and you know what?  Next time things get tough and layoffs go around, there's a good chance they'll remember just that and keep you on for that reason!  It's all about respect here.

he filled the prescription, because he sold it.

 when I've had work done on me that they felt i was going to need pain killers for, i was prescribed oxycotten. they told me to get that filled, 'cause i'd need it.
 i didn't need it, and i can't tell you how many people tried to buy that crap from me. i shredded the prescription.

actually he filled it because he had to. his workmans comp representative explained to him that if he fails to fill it and then develops complications, IE infection nerve damage etc then he would be setting himself up to have to suffer without help. they (workmans comp) would claim that he failed to follow the doctors orders and this would make any subsequent issues his liability. so essentially the system forced him to buy the medicine that he didn't want need or to the best of my knowledge use.

Cap  :furious he didn't sell them. i think they may still be sitting in his medicine cabinet.

Tigger, i do agree with everything else you have hypothesized and i also for the most part agree with your worries and fears on the issue!

<<S>> guys good thoughts here
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2010, 06:39:36 PM »
I do believe that in general, the system isn't broken.  The way it is now, anyone can walk in from the streets (legal or not) and get care at any hospital.

Who do you think pays for 'anyone' to walk in and get care without having to pay for it? Local hospitals and the individual states do... This is one of the many reasons that health care is so expensive is because the hospital's costs have to be passed on to those that actually have insurance or who aren't indigent.

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2010, 09:10:58 PM »
Some scary stuff about pharmaceuticals there. Over here it's controlled by a govt agency, pharmac. They mandate which drugs are subsidized by the health system. For example my asthma preventer medicine is free. They act as a sort of buffer to stop the drug company shenanigans you have in the US.

A lot of other preventative stuff goes into our healthcare (free breast screening, etc for woman). A visit for me to the GP costs ~US$25, for my kids it's free.

We also have a 3rd component, Accident Compensation Corporation. They handle accident payouts. ie no frivilous lawsuits are really possible here. ACC is more of a user pays component, it levies tax in different ways, businesses (rated on their national safety average, ie construction pays more than office work), and things like vehicle registration have a component in them.

I think the problem for the US is you need to address a whole bunch of side issues to make the healthcare work (ie the drug rorts, the lawsuits etc).

Offline CAP1

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2010, 10:33:29 PM »
Some scary stuff about pharmaceuticals there. Over here it's controlled by a govt agency, pharmac. They mandate which drugs are subsidized by the health system. For example my asthma preventer medicine is free. They act as a sort of buffer to stop the drug company shenanigans you have in the US.

A lot of other preventative stuff goes into our healthcare (free breast screening, etc for woman). A visit for me to the GP costs ~US$25, for my kids it's free.

We also have a 3rd component, Accident Compensation Corporation. They handle accident payouts. ie no frivilous lawsuits are really possible here. ACC is more of a user pays component, it levies tax in different ways, businesses (rated on their national safety average, ie construction pays more than office work), and things like vehicle registration have a component in them.

I think the problem for the US is you need to address a whole bunch of side issues to make the healthcare work (ie the drug rorts, the lawsuits etc).

it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free

 :D
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2010, 10:42:16 PM »
You know what I like... that free healthcare!  :banana:
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #101 on: August 14, 2010, 04:43:11 PM »
it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free  it is not free

 :D

LOL ok but compared to what you guys pay for healthcare and drugs it's pretty close to it :D

Offline CAP1

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #102 on: August 14, 2010, 04:49:10 PM »
LOL ok but compared to what you guys pay for healthcare and drugs it's pretty close to it :D

 i'd rather not pay for joe smiths broken arm, or their kids cold medication, or their parents acid reflux disease medication.....and that's what happens when we get what we're going to getr in a couple of years.

 i can't believe that they've pulled the wool over so many peoples eyes...........
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Offline lyric1

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #103 on: August 14, 2010, 07:37:45 PM »
i'd rather not pay for joe smiths broken arm, or their kids cold medication, or their parents acid reflux disease medication.....and that's what happens when we get what we're going to getr in a couple of years.

 i can't believe that they've pulled the wool over so many peoples eyes...........
Have you been in an emergency room of late here in the USA? You are already paying for it along with the rest of us that have health insurance.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Making Sense of the New Health Care Rules
« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2010, 07:40:51 PM »
i'd rather not pay for joe smiths broken arm, or their kids cold medication, or their parents acid reflux disease medication.....and that's what happens when we get what we're going to getr in a couple of years.

 i can't believe that they've pulled the wool over so many peoples eyes...........

Well, it costs me less to pay for other peoples healthcare and mine, than it does for you to cover your own healthcare alone. And I never have to worry about being refused healthcare for whatever reasons (eg pre-existing conditions etc), as well as having a healthcare system focussed on preventative medicine.