Stall limiter...do you fly with it on or off

[skagneti]

I have been flying in AH for a couple of years now and never realized I was flying with the stall limiter on until last night in the AvA arena.  I turned it off and I was snap rolling my 190 continuously.  My understanding is that the stall limiter reduces your maximum aileron control input.  The question is does the stall limiter only prevent stalls or does it also limit ability to turn by reducing control movement beyond the threshold of stalling out.  I want to know if it is worth relearning to fly with it off.  Thanks in advance for any comments/advice.

[ink]

shut it off

shut it off shut it off shut it off

two equal sticks in same plane, same load out the one with it off will be at an advantage, he will be able to make his plane do what the one with stall limiter on, wished he could

[Yeager]

Its like training wheels for Nancie's.  Turn that thing off and get down to bidness.

[Wiley]

Turn off stall limiter, and if you do a lot of turn and burning, turn off combat trim as well.  I'd been flying with combat trim always on, and always wondered why some guys could do things I couldn't at low speed.  I found out why when I turned it off a couple weeks ago.

Wiley.

[ink]

Turn off stall limiter, and if you do a lot of turn and burning, turn off combat trim as well.  I'd been flying with combat trim always on, and always wondered why some guys could do things I couldn't at low speed.  I found out why when I turned it off a couple weeks ago.

Wiley.

map it to toggle......in a fight shut it off, flying to the fight have it on(combat trim that is)

[PFactorDave]

Turn it off and stay out of the picker plane too! 

[jimson]

I have been flying in AH for a couple of years now and never realized I was flying with the stall limiter on until last night in the AvA arena.  I turned it off and I was snap rolling my 190 continuously.  My understanding is that the stall limiter reduces your maximum aileron control input.  The question is does the stall limiter only prevent stalls or does it also limit ability to turn by reducing control movement beyond the threshold of stalling out.  I want to know if it is worth relearning to fly with it off.  Thanks in advance for any comments/advice.

Jeeeze, now I gotta fly against you once you master it W/O stall limiter?

My experience is that after a while you adjust and don't notice that it's not on.

As far as combat trim, I have it mapped so I can toggle it off and on.

[Wiley]

map it to toggle......in a fight shut it off, flying to the fight have it on(combat trim that is)

Yeah, forgot to mention that part.

Wiley.

[ImADot]

My understanding is that stall limiter only limits your AoA (Angle of Attack) to prevent [mostly] power-on stalls.  It doesn't dampen your control sensitivity or speed of movement.  I turned my stall limiter off after three sorties.  I also have combat trim (plus the actual elevator/aileron trim), and the auto-pilot functions, mapped to my stick to turn on/off whenever I want.

[waystin2]

Off.

[colmbo]

I'd been flying with combat trim always on, and always wondered why some guys could do things I couldn't at low speed.  I found out why when I turned it off a couple weeks ago.

Haven't been around AH very long...some guys were saying you should always use Combat Trim, that it helps you retain E by always having you in trim.  What are the downsides to Combat Trim?

[vafiii]

If you turn off the stall limiter do you then need to scale your ailerons, elevators and rudder?

[ImADot]

If you turn off the stall limiter do you then need to scale your ailerons, elevators and rudder?

No, you just can't be "hamfisted" with your stick.  Fly with a light touch, making small movements - just enough to get the desired result.  Scaling/damping may help, and your stick may require a little of each.  Only you can determine that, by how you feel while flying without the stall limiter.

Once you've gotten used to flying without stall limiter, you'll be amazed at how little movement you really need and you'll see yourself flying smoothly and gracefully...up to the point where you hit the ground. 

[Wiley]

My take on it, in cruise or BnZ, it's great for the reasons you stated, Colmbo.

First, a bit on how it works.  All combat trim does is reference a table that slides the trim controls to specific spots based on the speed you're at.  At 150 mph, the tabs are set here, at 200 mph, they're set to here.  It's very smooth, they move every mph or two, I'd guess.  These values are pretty close to dead on at full throttle, under light fighter loadout.  You'll notice if you're say, missing an aileron, combat trim won't be quite right, the wing with the missing aileron will drop due to decreased lift.  You can still manually trim that out if desired, but because combat trim assumes a whole plane, it's slightly out of whack at that point.  Another easy to see example is take off a 109K4, get it off the ground and climbing out with no autopilot on, but combat trim on, and hit WEP.  The added torque (or processional whatzit, basically the force that causes the plane to want to roll due to the airflow coming off the prop) causes the plane to roll to the left with combat trim on.  It's not that the trims are at their maximum deflection, it's just that combat trim doesn't take that force into account, probably by design so it's not too perfect under all circumstances.

What I discovered, at least in my hands, is when I get into a lower speed fight, if I'm riding the stall, the inputs are changing as my speed changes due to combat trim, even though the stick is stationary.  A good illustration of what I'm talking about is, get up some speed in your favorite plane with combat trim on, and pull straight vertical, try to get it down to 0 IAS before the nose drops.  Then try it with combat trim off.

In my experience, it's nearly impossible to do with combat trim on, trivial with combat trim off.  That same logic applies to stall fighting.  You can turn more smoothly at low speeds because your controls aren't getting those little adjustments as your speed changes.  Made a lot of planes I had trouble turning well with much much better under 150IAS.

I personally take off with combat trim on, I find some planes, in particular most of the 109s try to drag the left wing when you roll under WEP with it off.

Wiley.

[Soulyss]

If you turn off the stall limiter do you then need to scale your ailerons, elevators and rudder?

You don't technically need to but you may want to.  I scale my elevator and rudder axis so I have a more fine control over what they're doing.

Haven't been around AH very long...some guys were saying you should always use Combat Trim, that it helps you retain E by always having you in trim.  What are the downsides to Combat Trim?

Being in trim is generally a good thing. If the plane is trimmed out it does reduce the workload on the pilot a bit because you don't have to make corrections with the stick to line up a shot for instance.  

What I don't like about combat trim is the plane retrimming when I'm working the flaps which I have to do a lot of in the 38.  I also find it harder to control at high AoA and low speeds so I usually just leave it off in the P-38 (which only has pitch axis to worry about anyway).  I do have it mapped to a button on my throttle and I tend to toggle it off and on when I'm flying other planes.  Combat Trim is also designed to get you close but not 100% hands off level flight, you may notice that under some conditions with CT on the plane may still want to pitch up a little for example.