Base capture

[EskimoJoe]

What keeps conveniently getting avoided here is that they swarm pork and leave. Taking the base is not really an issue, it's the lack of a fight in the aftermath. I'm glad a six wing megasquad has found their niche in base razing "Independence Day" tactics but you guys really shouldn't be surprised people are less than impressed when you head for the hills so you can plan your next sneak attack on the other side of the world. We get it's your $15 but there are quite a few people who are looking for an actual fight. And taking the time to up from a base to put a defense only to have you guys disappear as quickly as you came is pretty lame.

I've yet to run across a -v-dweeb that will engage without a superior
number advantage.

2 Doras vs a 152 and an A8, both -v-dweebs.
What do they do as soon as they get within visual range?
Head for the hills!

Of course, my wingman and I give chase. We know immediately what
squad they're in, based simply on their lack of any skill or will to fight.

Two easy kills. I was really quite disappointed, yet unsurprised.

[vNUCKS]

I've yet to run across a -v-dweeb that will engage without a superior number advantage.

Come fly with us sometime then, you may become surprised at how your opinion may change when it is based on first hand knowledge.  Also, the inconsistency in the absurd allegations that so many place against the vTards, aka the Devils =v= Brigade lessens your credibility:

For instance, we swarm a base, flatten it, caputure it and "leave"???  Huh, it is our usual behaviour to "mop up the remaining "un-defenders" (of course if I claim there were defenders I'd be alleging many of you here on the forums were liars), and land at our new base.  We assess the defensive requirements needed to keep our new base, leaving some to defend as needed and/or porking adjoining bases etc. etc.

The fundamental difference between those that criticize the vTards, and the the Devils =v= Brigade themselves is the difference between tactical and strategical thinking.  Those that love combat only, the mano y mano self proclaimed purists all to often seek only winning the next engagement, as opposed to the vTards whose primary goal is winning the war.  As a result, our behavior may occasionally seem odd to the tactical thinker.  We often laugh amongst ourselves (key phrase "amongst ourselves") at what we consider the apparent stupidity of our opponents to recognize and react to our all to obvious strategic objectives. For instance, have you guys ever noticed how our goons and M3's, not only stick around after dropping troops, but often appear otw way to drop again so as to become "bait" to conceal and defend their running troops?  We do that because all to many (I won't make any rash over-generalizations here) of the tactical players seem to only care about the "kill" as opposed the the base, or their rank and k/d ratio. Have you ever stopped to look at what is happening on the rest of the map as one or two of us drag you and your two, three and sometimes five or more away from the fight?  It certainly often comes at a cost to our individual tactical survivability, but often ensures the success of our strategic objectives.

The bottom line, we're playing to win a fundamentally different prize.  Success for ourselves as opposed to success for our country.  I sense that your complaints and frustration come from our ability to accomplish our objectives, while often denying you the ability to accomplish yours.

You gotta think a little bigger if you wanna defeat the big thinkers.

[fullmetalbullet]

Come fly with us sometime then, you may become surprised at how your opinion may change when it is based on first hand knowledge.  Also, the inconsistency in the absurd allegations that so many place against the vTards, aka the Devils =v= Brigade lessens your credibility:

For instance, we swarm a base, flatten it, caputure it and "leave"???  Huh, it is our usual behaviour to "mop up the remaining "un-defenders" (of course if I claim there were defenders I'd be alleging many of you here on the forums were liars), and land at our new base.  We assess the defensive requirements needed to keep our new base, leaving some to defend as needed and/or porking adjoining bases etc. etc.

The fundamental difference between those that criticize the vTards, and the the Devils =v= Brigade themselves is the difference between tactical and strategical thinking.  Those that love combat only, the mano y mano self proclaimed purists all to often seek only winning the next engagement, as opposed to the vTards whose primary goal is winning the war.  As a result, our behavior may occasionally seem odd to the tactical thinker.  We often laugh amongst ourselves (key phrase "amongst ourselves") at what we consider the apparent stupidity of our opponents to recognize and react to our all to obvious strategic objectives. For instance, have you guys ever noticed how our goons and M3's, not only stick around after dropping troops, but often appear otw way to drop again so as to become "bait" to conceal and defend their running troops?  We do that because all to many (I won't make any rash over-generalizations here) of the tactical players seem to only care about the "kill" as opposed the the base, or their rank and k/d ratio. Have you ever stopped to look at what is happening on the rest of the map as one or two of us drag you and your two, three and sometimes five or more away from the fight?  It certainly often comes at a cost to our individual tactical survivability, but often ensures the success of our strategic objectives.

The bottom line, we're playing to win a fundamentally different prize.  Success for ourselves as opposed to success for our country.  I sense that your complaints and frustration come from our ability to accomplish our objectives, while often denying you the ability to accomplish yours.

You gotta think a little bigger if you wanna defeat the big thinkers.

Nucks they'll never understand that. they think their some kinda hero if they go 1 on 1 with someone kinda like a jousting knight. when infact this is a war game. their blinded by one piece of the pie and thats dogfighting. when in fact, there are lots more that can be done i,e win the war -gasps- oh wait i just said a forbidden word. they dont know what team work is and they dont understand strategic gains in a war game. they view this game as a way to fullfill their childhood dream of being that pilot that was portraid in movies as the lone wolf hero who stops 50 to 100 enemy planes in one pass. and when actual historical facts and tactics are used they downplay it as cowardly and skilless, i would actually like to hear them say that to ww2 pilots who used numbers quite often to win a battle.

[Rob52240]

NUCKS, don't bother.  EskimoJoe isn't interested in joining our squad since he'd have to wait in the tower until 75 other guys were also online before he can go do anything.

Then once in the air he might not like our squad rule of only taking HO shots and running away, it's just not for everybody.  He also seems to have issues with us only attacking undefended bases and our requirement that everyone send a nasty PM to whoever just shot us down via our vDALLAS shared shade account.

And even if he were to fly with us, he'd probably lose all interest once he finds out that our CO is in 7th grade and insists on having a daily 2 hour discussion regarding the World Of Warcraft while one lucky squad member does his algebra homework.

Nobody has to like us but then again, they don't need to hate us either.

<S>

[MORAY37]

NUCKS, don't bother.  EskimoJoe isn't interested in joining our squad since he'd have to wait in the tower until 75 other guys were also online before he can go do anything.

Then once in the air he might not like our squad rule of only taking HO shots and running away, it's just not for everybody.  He also seems to have issues with us only attacking undefended bases and our requirement that everyone send a nasty PM to whoever just shot us down via our vDALLAS shared shade account.

And even if he were to fly with us, he'd probably lose all interest once he finds out that our CO is in 7th grade and insists on having a daily 2 hour discussion regarding the World Of Warcraft while one lucky squad member does his algebra homework.

Nobody has to like us but then again, they don't need to hate us either. 

<S>

Why do I think this was a completely heartfelt, honest post?

[dev41]

I have read numerous posts on the vguys and I really don't get why everyone gets so worked up about them. Who cares how they choose to play the game? I enjoy fighting them even when the odds are stacked against me. I like fighting them better when there are more fellow defenders and the odds are more in my favor. While I am no where near one of the better sticks in the game I still enjoy fighting them. I feel like they provide a good opportunity for a fight and add to the games value. If we all did the same thing this game would be awfully boring. Who cares if they brag about what they do - many other players brag about what they do and no one cares.

The OP was simply saying that he would like more time in order to mount a more effective defense. I am with him on this. I actually don't recall any of the vguys disagreeing with his post, although I could have missed something. I am sure his suggestion would make their job harder, but maybe they would appreciate the greater challenge. Strange to me the level of vitriol that gets directed toward them.

[Oldman731]

You gotta think a little bigger if you wanna defeat the big thinkers.

And so the reason I avoid the MAs is revealed at last:  I'm nothing more than a little thinker.

- oldman (or was that "stinker"?)

[GNucks]

And so the reason I avoid the MAs is revealed at last:  I'm nothing more than a little thinker.

- oldman (or was that "stinker"?)

His post was not meant to be interpreted in a degrading fashion. He was talking about scale, not intellect. Perhaps he should have said "defeat the big thinkers at their own game"

@dev41: I commented that our go-to strategy most of the time is 10K heavy Ponies at full speed because it only gives a 2-3 minute warning for the defenders. We do it because it works, but I don't necessarily think it's fair on the defenders. We don't play with the intent on being fair but I believe the game could be tweaked a little bit to make that tactic a little more possible to counter.

[vNUCKS]

I can understand if their are those that don't enjoy trying to stop those of us that are out to win the war, take their base etc. etc., and I respect their right to their preferences.  HTC has offered a number of arenas, and frankly ways to play within each arena to accommodate most of these players.  To each his own, find you're game and enjoy it.

But please don't think I'm not insulting the intellect of those that feel it is necessary to constantly harangue their opponents about about how they should play the game (we're playing our game for our amusement, you should do the same).  Please don't think I'm not insulting the intellect of those that say you "can't stop the horde", I've done it, and had it done to me many a time.  If you claim it can't be done, you're just plain ignorant.  And by posting here on the forums that it can't be done, you're just proving to the rest of the community how close-minded and unobservant you are. 

Every country is provided the same resources and the same rules.  The game offers no advantage to one vs. the other (except for that uber AI ack of the Knights, lol).  We each choose our objectives, and our strategies and tactics to meet those objectives.  If you don't like how your opponent beats you, when everything he has available is also available to you, what message are you sending when you choose to complain that his behavior is somehow unfair. 

Let's consider your case:

1. The Horde uses the same planes available to us.
2. The Horde uses the same bases available to us.
3. The Horde uses pilots with skills inferior to ours. (your claim, not mine)

And you wanna complain here about how they roll your country like a rag doll, hmmm... all I can figure is maybe it is your inferior intellect that allows them victory over you.  Please do me a favor, stop complaining about the Horde, and just plain try stopping the Horde instead.  It would be a lot more fun for the both of us, and frankly, you can't be nearly as dimwitted as your incessant whining makes you look to all those that you cry to.

On the other hand, try solitaire.  I wonder if you'd whine about your opponent in that game as well.

[GNucks]

I suppose I was mistaken then.

[moot]

inferior intellect

You keep saying that.  One of if not the major factor in the "hordes" not being stopped is that people just want to fly their own way. Meaning they don't care or don't want to coordinate with total strangers.  It means having to agree on tactics and that kind of micromanagement just isn't fun, and takes too long to set up.  Just agreeing to all roll together doesn't reliably happen either:  all you get is someone saying that base X is under attack and needs help. Or someone saying "we defended this base, now let's go defend that one"; and half the time almost no one will show up for that. The amount of timely response is erratic because not everyone cares about one base, or cares to stop their sortie to go defend it, esp not if it means starting from less than equal alt/speed/numbers/etc.

[vNUCKS]

You keep saying that.  One of if not the major factor in the "hordes" not being stopped is that people just want to fly their own way. Meaning they don't care or don't want to coordinate with total strangers.  It means having to agree on tactics and that kind of micromanagement just isn't fun, and takes too long to set up.  Just agreeing to all roll together doesn't reliably happen either:  all you get is someone saying that base X is under attack and needs help. Or someone saying "we defended this base, now let's go defend that one"; and half the time almost no one will show up for that. The amount of timely response is erratic because not everyone cares about one base, or cares to stop their sortie to go defend it, esp not if it means starting from less than equal alt/speed/numbers/etc.

My point isn't that they're not stopped, but rather that they're characterized as being unstoppable.  If I interpret your rambling correctly, the Horde has chosen to act as a cohesive team whereas "people just want to fly their own way".  If "people" wanted to work together maybe the Horde would be stoppable.  If you don't wanna stop the Horde, FINE!!!... but please quit whining about you choosing not to stop us!!!

[MrRiplEy[H]]

And you wanna complain here about how they roll your country like a rag doll, hmmm... all I can figure is maybe it is your inferior intellect that allows them victory over you. 

If mobbing required any intellect whatsoever, every school mobber would become hawkings or einstein. Sadly it's exactly the opposite.

[moot]

If "people" wanted to work together maybe the Horde would be stoppable.  If you don't wanna stop the Horde

You might want to stop the horde but not want to work together with perfect strangers who you don't get along with, to defend a base that doesn't matter.

If you take the chaff out of the horde whining, you find the legitimate complaint that hordes are excessive often enough, e.g. 20 attackers repeatedly taking bases where there's no commensurate defense.  What is the point of rolling to defend when way too few join in?  As a result some of the defenders give it up for another fight that's more even, further diminishing the remaining defenders' incentive for even trying. But because to "cohesive" attackers, real estate trumps the actual fight over that real estate, they'll often keep going regardless.  Changing the color of identical airfields like it was a meaningful victory.

You can win the "War" fifty times over and the maps will be the same, the planes the same, there's no difference whatsoever.  Just sysyphus pushing his boulder to the rim over and over.  So the only real point to it all is having good fights.  "Hordes" that disregard how much contestation their attacks trigger, to the point they'll attack empty bases, reduce the amount of that only substance to the game - air combat.

" If you don't wanna deal with actual air combat, FINE!!!... but please quit whining about us pointing out your futile strategies!!!"  Futile because generates little or no combat.  And I don't actually identify with "us" or "you", or think the above paraphrase is all there is to it.  I find it just as nonsensical to run away from defensive fights where the odds aren't stacked on your side, as it is to purposefully not take a "cohesive team" attack into equal or larger red bar.

Overall there's just as much "whining" on the horde side as on the uncohesive "furballer" side.

[vNUCKS]

If mobbing required any intellect whatsoever, every school mobber would become hawkings or einstein. Sadly it's exactly the opposite.

What a load, lol. Try running that "mob" 10 times and report back with your results.  Ignorance is a poor pedestal from which to preach intellect.