Lancstuka...the data no one bothered to look up

[Ack-Ack]

it does matter, how many tanks were destroyed on that day?  hundreds? thousands? a few?  sending over 1k lancs to bomb gv's doesnt mean they went in individually and hunted down individual tanks one by one, like you try to compare to the game.  most likely on that day they were assigned an area and they dropped bombs on that area tanks or no tanks.

semp

Enough tanks that two panzer regiments were knocked out of the battle until they were able to get enough men, tanks and other vehicles to get back into fighting shape.

sending over 1k lancs to bomb gv's doesnt mean they went in individually and hunted down individual tanks one by one, like you try to compare to the game.  most likely on that day they were assigned an area and they dropped bombs on that area tanks or no tanks.

semp

The Lancasters and Halifax bombers were sent over Normandy that early morning to specifically bomb the tanks, vehicles, artillery and men of the 21st Panzer Division, along with the steelworks at Colombelles and the town of Cagny.  This was to soften German positions so the British could break out of the Normandy beaches and capture Caen.  The tanks in the images I posted were a result of being on the receiving end of the bombs specifically dropped to blow them up, it wasn't a case of the 21st PD being bombed because they just happened to have the bad luck to be in a spot the bombers were carpet bombing.

You didn't like the answer to infowar's question about real life stats of Lancasters bombing tanks during the war, so you're trying twist things around to prove your point.  The problem is it doesn't matter if in real life if Lancasters hunted individual tanks and bombed them all that matters is that contrary to the prevalent belief that Lancasters were never used in this fashion, there were indeed used to carpet bomb tanks.

Lancasters and Halifax bombers weren't the only ones to have fun, USAAF B-17s, B-24s, B-26s, B-25s, A-26s, A-20s all took part in similiar missions to support the US break out from the Normandy beaches, this time under Operation Cobra.  The USAAF and RAF also flew similiar missions during the attempt to destroy the German army in the Falaise pocket, carpet bombing German positions around the clock.

ack-ack

[guncrasher]

akak of course bombers were used to bomb tank positions.  bombers were used in any roll you can think of.  they were used to bomb outhouses too. jeeps, tents, dogs, whatever.  but bombers were not as accurate as in the game. had they been as accurate, they would've sent about 4 to cause the same amount of damage as the 1,042 did.

fact is bombers were used to bomb positions not individual targets.  they bombed a large area with lots of bombers, so yes 1042 bombers with thousands of bombs falling over a few square mile area would have hit something.  his position is single bombers targeting individual gv's were close to none.  you can twist his words around if you want.

semp

[Karnak]

guncrasher,

People bombing tanks with heavy bombers in AH aren't using the bombsight, they are using dead reckoning and are anything but accurate.

[Shuffler]

akak of course bombers were used to bomb tank positions.  bombers were used in any roll you can think of.  they were used to bomb outhouses too. jeeps, tents, dogs, whatever.  but bombers were not as accurate as in the game. had they been as accurate, they would've sent about 4 to cause the same amount of damage as the 1,042 did.

fact is bombers were used to bomb positions not individual targets.  they bombed a large area with lots of bombers, so yes 1042 bombers with thousands of bombs falling over a few square mile area would have hit something.  his position is single bombers targeting individual gv's were close to none.  you can twist his words around if you want.

semp

We simply don't put that many together in the game.

In game if there were 1000 tanks attacking a position I'm sure there would be many more than 1 lanc.

[Rob52240]

I love a thread that tries to dictate how to play or not to play aces high.

-1

[MK-84]

I love a thread that tries to dictate how to play or not to play aces high.

-1

The threat started as a list of stats and an observation

[Babalonian]

Lusche, do we need to inform your wife that you've been spending your freetime running around with a new stat cruncher on the forums now?

[Rich52]

Lol the American LEVEL bombing preceding Cobra killed more Americans then it did Germans. Two things allowed the breakout, 1 is that the Germans were convinced the main threat was to Caen. 2nd a huge artillery bombardment and combined arms attack is what allowed the breakout into favorable terrain.

Even Operation Goodwoocouldn'tnt really be called a success, other then tieing down German forces. What small success the lancs had "Level Bombing" at 3,000' was either repaired oreinforceded by the Huns quickly. The American "LEVEL BOMBING" from much higher alsdidn'tnt hurt the enemy much. The Brits lost far more tanks then the Germans.

Even the heavy bombers preceding Falaise killed many Canadians and Polish soldiers. Really the coordination of heavy "LEVEL" bomber use in these attacks were heavily flawed.

To bad they didn't didnt have Lancstukas.

[Oldman731]

Lol the American LEVEL bombing preceding Cobra killed more Americans then it did Germans.

I would like to know your source for this.

Not saying you're wrong, both of the Cobra bombings hit friendly forces, but I've just never see the claim that more Americans were killed than Germans.

- oldman

[Rich52]

I would like to know your source for this.

Not saying you're wrong, both of the Cobra bombings hit friendly forces, but I've just never see the claim that more Americans were killed than Germans.

- oldman

Three days in a row where the bombs were all dropped on our own Lines would lead one to assume more friendlies were killed then enemy. The red smoke shells we shot to I.D. the German lines drifted back right over the 30'th division and the bombers dropped quite accuratly right on our own troops. Its common knowledge it was one of the most screwball OPs in the war.

[Ack-Ack]

Lol the American LEVEL bombing preceding Cobra killed more Americans then it did Germans. Two things allowed the breakout, 1 is that the Germans were convinced the main threat was to Caen. 2nd a huge artillery bombardment and combined arms attack is what allowed the breakout into favorable terrain.

Gee...Rich you haven't changed at all have ya, still short on the facts or in this case lack of facts...

The pre-attack bombardment carried out on 07/24/44 resulted in 25 US soldiers being killed by their own bombs.  During the main attack on 07/25/44, inaccurate bombing by the 8th AF led to the friendly fire deaths of 111 US soldiers.  Now compare this to the over 10,000 German soldiers killed and could you really say with a straight face that your claim that the USAAF killed more Americans than Germans during Operation Cobra is accurate?

Even Operation Goodwoocouldn'tnt really be called a success, other then tieing down German forces. What small success the lancs had "Level Bombing" at 3,000' was either repaired oreinforceded by the Huns quickly. The American "LEVEL BOMBING" from much higher alsdidn'tnt hurt the enemy much. The Brits lost far more tanks then the Germans.

Even the heavy bombers preceding Falaise killed many Canadians and Polish soldiers. Really the coordination of heavy "LEVEL" bomber use in these attacks were heavily flawed.

To bad they didn't didnt have Lancstukas.

I don't think anyone in this thread claimed that Operation Goodwood was a success, there has been a raging debate since whether or not it was a planned offensive by the British to break out of the Normandy beach head and capture Caen or as a diversionary attack in support of the US planned break out by drawing German panzer units away from the American lines.  Germany had identified the British and the Canadians as their most powerful threat on Normandy and rushed most of their panzer units to deal with the British and Canadians, leaving a skeleton force to face the Americans.  But I digress as that wasn't the point of my bringing up Operation Cobra, Goodwood or the Falaise pocket, it was to show that yes, during the war heavy bombers were in fact used to bomb tanks and other armored vehicles.  


ack-ack

[guncrasher]

I like akak's logic.  hey a German parachuted into England, so you can say, Germany invaded England.

akak, if somebody says that bombers in the war did not bomb gv's like in the game.  it's mean to be bombers did not hunt down individual tanks in the war and had a 1 bomb 1 kill record.  but rather they brought 100's and 100's of bombers to bomb an area and hoped they got some tanks.  which of course if you drop thousands of bombs in an area that you know has tanks you will destroy some.

in ww2 the bombers were not used in the same manner as they are used here in the game.  you can bring all kinds of records, but in reality 100's and 1000's of bombers were used to drop bombs over a large area and prayed that they hit something.

  


semp

[Rob52240]

Here you can clearly see a Lancaster dive-carpetbomb an M-8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veWyTy5JD2M

[Lusche]

Here you can clearly see a Lancaster dive-carpetbomb an M-8.

No I can't, because there is copyrighted music in it

[SmokinLoon]

If anyone think the British or US were stupid enough to have their heavy bombers float just above the tree top hunting gv's in multiple passes they are absolutely insane.

Bombers may have carpet bombed an area known to have enemy troops and vehicles, but heavy bombers  did it from high above the target area.

Bomber, especially heavy bombers *should* have some type of restriction on them.  It cant really be altitude because I can show you that B24D's dropped 100lb bombs in the PTO as low as 800ft (level).  Speed really doesnt effect the low alt bomb tard stuff.  Only the "bomb drop in F6 mode only" restriction can work.  That is arbitrary to HTC's wishes.