Very Insightful BF-109 Vid

[Stoney]

Heck, McCampbell got 34 kills in 5 months of combat.  Just imagine what a guy like him would have accomplished had he had stuff to shoot at for 4-5 years (assuming he survived).

[STEELE]

As for one-on-many-godliness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOQOzGeCO6c

How bout 1 K4 vs 8 late war and perked Spits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecNF1K7c8pk

[Debrody]

Heck, McCampbell got 34 kills in 5 months of combat.  Just imagine what a guy like him would have accomplished had he had stuff to shoot at for 4-5 years (assuming he survived).

Thats very impressive, shows his talent and the great training the allies did.
Still, who was that german one who got 10 kills in 15 minutes?

[Krusty]

I think there was a claim something like that for Marseille in Africa.

[PR3D4TOR]

How bout 1 K4 vs 8 late war and perked Spits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecNF1K7c8pk

Most impressive!

[Angus]

Marseilles 17 kill day was never confirmed properly. But is rather established that he hit 17 aircraft that day.
To get 10 confirmed kills in 15 minutes, you need many eyes to either confirm disintergration, a bale-out or a ground smash.
Getting to McCambell, how many kills did he get in a day? like 6 or so?
Robert Stanford Tuck got 5 kills in a day over Dieppe, where (due to smoke and haze) it was difficult to find the enemy. He got shot down eventually, later on, by a flak unit. He actually did put a bulled through the flak gun´s nozzle!
That is something.
And then it was "Screwball" Beurling. IMHO the best shot of the war. Must have had eyes of an eagle. Shooting up planes with wing guns rather than the central mountings, and both aiming for the vital parts as well as counting the strikes who later got verified is absolutely unique.
Malan made a mess of Mölders, in an epic dogfight. Malan engaged and shot down one of Mölders men. Mölders made no mistake and with his plan came down on Malan's six. Malan easily outmaneuvered Mölders and peppered him into a cheese filter before letting go, and there were 2 possible reasons for that, - one being the need to break away, and the second (famous for Malan) was to spare his enemy so he could go home wounded and humiliated. He did that actually on several occations.
Rall, - a crack shot and excellent flyer, and if he had not been injured during a vital phase of the war in the east (like a year or so), he might have topped Hartmann. On the Western front he was injured again, and he stated it had saved his life, for closing on enemy figher formations like the high flying P51's and P47's and being outnumbered, was close to suicide. He got shot down by Zemke's pack (P47), and with a grin he said that probably saved his life. He did get shot down some 8 times, and one noteable German Ace 17 times.
Then the coolest. "Pat" Pattle was the top scoring RAF ace with some 50 victories, there off some 15 in a biplane! Top that!
And that was just the pilot part, . . sigh

[PR3D4TOR]

Marseille's claim was 7 kills in 11 minutes if I remember correctly.

Franz Kurowski (biographer), claims that 24 of the 26 victories credited to JG27 on 1 September 1942 (of which 17 were claimed by Marseille) were verified through Allied records after the war. A USAF historian, Major Robert Tate states: "for years, many British historians and militarists refused to admit that they had lost any aircraft that day in North Africa. Careful review of records however do show that the British and South Africans did lose more than 17 aircraft that day, and in the area that Marseille operated."

[Debrody]

Maybe it was Krupinski? My memory is worthless. IDK, too late for the research, help me out if you know something about it.
Statistically, there were equally talented ones on each sides. From 10 000s of pilots on both sides, its inpossible that one side has the 100 top ones... i think we can agree in that. My point is the routine, the experience. No traning can replace 100+ won fights.
As for the biplanes... my vote is on the Finns, they were the specialists of turning a poor aircraft into a death trap : )

[morfiend]

Angus,

  Buzz{screwball}Beurling was one of those crazy canuks,it's said that he would practice all the time he wasn't flying. His practice was to shoot any lizards he saw on Malta with his sidearm,this was supposedly the reason for his deadly accuracy.

    Have read of his exploits,I'd say his flying had as much to do with his victories as his shooting. He was said to take high deflection shots but most were from real close in,IIRC he struck more than 1 A/C with his spit5....

  Those boys who served in Malta had a tough time,no supplies,little food and water and were under constant threat. We owe a great deal of gratitude to those poor boys!



   

[Widewing]

Getting to McCambell, how many kills did he get in a day? like 6 or so?

McCampbell during a single sortie, shot down 9 fighters, with two probables (observed to be burning, but not seen to crash) and two damaged. His wingman shot down another 6 with several damaged as well. McCampbell's is the Allied single sortie record.

[Guppy35]

Marseille's claim was 7 kills in 11 minutes if I remember correctly.

Franz Kurowski (biographer), claims that 24 of the 26 victories credited to JG27 on 1 September 1942 (of which 17 were claimed by Marseille) were verified through Allied records after the war. A USAF historian, Major Robert Tate states: "for years, many British historians and militarists refused to admit that they had lost any aircraft that day in North Africa. Careful review of records however do show that the British and South Africans did lose more than 17 aircraft that day, and in the area that Marseille operated."

LOL I get so tired of the LW fans and the highest scores makes them better.

F/L Terry Spencer, with no kills to his credit, flying a Spit XII in September 44 shot down Bully Lang who had 173 kills to his credit.  Who was better?  Of course it was the first time that Terry ran into a German fighter.  Could be the lack of targets got in the way?

A 474th FG P38J driver named Earl Nuckols had exactly two encounters with Luftwaffe fighters.  He and his squadron of 12 38s were lugging bombs on a ground attack mission August 25, 1944.  They got bounced by 2 squadrons of higher 109s.  As the fight progressed 2 more squadrons of 190s joined the fight.  It was at least 4-1 odds against and 8 of 12 38s went down.  Nuckols shot down a 109 and 190 and damaged 2 others.   

On December 17, 1944, he was leading 8 P38s on a ground attack run when they got bounced by 24 + 190s, which were later joined by 30+ more.  It was close to 7-1 odds.  He shot down one, damaged another and out flew a bunch more, despite being damaged to survive the fight.

So in the end he finished the war with 3 kills.  Imagine a guy like that in a different role where he was the hunter.  To go into two fights like that, from below, hopelessly outnumbered and with no other option and come out the other end alive? 

Numbers never tell the entire story.

[PR3D4TOR]

LOL I get so tired of the LW fans and the highest scores makes them better.

You must see them everywhere...

[Guppy35]

You must see them everywhere...

I rest my case your honor...

[TequilaChaser]

I can vouch for Widewing's  after clinic flights that Murdr & WideWing had filmed...... ( reply #21 in this thread )......... is like when your crounty mates ( or team mates ) all try going for the kill, they start competing against each other in a race to get the kill, verse working together as an element or unit, etc......  all one has to do is keep the lot of them in the same hemisphere

and as AkAk posted, Levi & Drex did this stuff on a routine basis ( reply #28 of this thread )......... and several others have had this same type of fight and have prevailed on more than a handful of occasions......

just seems like it is less likely to be seen these days as it used to be, the atitude of the arenas seems to have changed direction a little bit......


TC

[Ack-Ack]

I think there was a claim something like that for Marseille in Africa.

Except RAF records don't support the claims.

ack-ack