Storch Can Pick Up Downed Pilot to get a Landed Rescue Message

[Changeup]

Wiser than I am?  Well, they certainly know their product better than I do, but.....the position I have been stating about popularity not being a good method for a developer to make changes to their game is a position that HiTech has explicitly stated in this forum.  I have also seen the developers at Blizzard explicitly state the same.

So, I guess in this case HiTech, the guys at Blizzard and myself share the same opinion.


Obviously, as I said, any developer will know their product better than any player will.  It is entirely possible that what I see as bad things for the game, HiTech would see as a good thing for the game, so maybe you will get your perk transfer, name in lights, pilot rescue feature, but if you do it will not be because it was a popular idea, it will be because HiTech and Pyro thought it was a good idea.

Actually the position you've been stating is that the idea would be a waste of the players time and a waste of the developers time.  Development via popular conceptualization has had very little to do with the entire thread thus far, but you used it well for your fallback position in the discussion.

[Karnak]

Actually the position you've been stating is that the idea would be a waste of the players time and a waste of the developers time.  Development via popular conceptualization has had very little to do with the entire thread thus far, but you used it well for your fallback position in the discussion.

What fallback position?  My take from the start has been that it is bad for the game as I stated.  I stand by that position as there has not been any effective refutation of it.  You introduced the faulty idea that anything the players want to do should be available as it is their $15/mo. I simply added that to my list of things to respond to.

[bustr]

If rescues were never conducted in WW2 by puddel jumper observation craft then I ask Hitech to close this thread for being histroicly off base.

Otherwise, I don't see it poking out anyones eyeballs whenever messages scroll through the games text buffer. I'll understand though if Karnak is using direct lazer imaging technology and he's begining to get retna burn in these days and doesen't want to go to his grave seeing the following in his periferal for the rest of his life:

HOST: changeup saved bustr in a Storch of Army of Muppets

[Changeup]

If rescues were never conducted in WW2 by puddel jumper observation craft then I ask Hitech to close this thread for being histroicly off base.

Otherwise, I don't see it poking out anyones eyeballs whenever messages scroll through the games text buffer. I'll understand though if Karnak is using direct lazer imaging technology and he's begining to get retna burn in these days and doesen't want to go to his grave seeing the following in his periferal for the rest of his life:

HOST: changeup saved bustr in a Storch of Army of Muppets

And Changeup WOULD save Bustr in a Storch of Army of Muppets

[Changeup]

What fallback position?  My take from the start has been that it is bad for the game as I stated.  I stand by that position as there has not been any effective refutation of it.  You introduced the faulty idea that anything the players want to do should be available as it is their $15/mo. I simply added that to my list of things to respond to.

Wrong.  I added the following:

1.  Success (as defined by the user, not the community) = Fun
2.  BBS flametards and gamers don't get to judge the time value of other players;
3.  That HiTech and his staff have used a form of democracy in the past to let the community help decide which equipment will be modeled next for the game;
4.  That a game-appropriate model can be developed for this concept that rewards the pilot rescuing and being rescued;
5.  That the Storch/downed pilot rescue is no different than the GV/Supply delivery rescue of a GV that is injured beyond repair or out of ammo (both are guaranteed death in most cases) from a time-away-from-the-fight perspective and a "rescue" perspective;
6.  This is an idea and all ideas are worthy of being vetted out to a game-appropriate conclusion (to which you have posted nothing of any value towards a decision in the negative, with the exception of properly crediting the pilots involved...and possibly the over-your-own-field-bail out.)

I have NEVER mentioned the following:

1.  Its my 15 bucks
2.  Gimme what I want because I think its a good idea (BTW, had you come up with a decent reason rescues WERE a bad idea, I would have no compunction whatsoever capitulating)
3.  Hitech and his staff should grant all wishes (that is just stupid for you to say I said or, that I intimated that)

You say it would be bad for the game but you cannot come up with any reasons that do not already exist in the game as evidenced from your posts; therefore, yes, inclusion by popularity was a horrible fallback position.

Friends?

Changeup

[Karnak]

I explained why rescues that were encouraged by rewards that made it worth the time to do the rescue would be bad for the game.  You disagree because you think players should be able to do what they want with the game as it is their$15/mo and, correctly, that it isn't my place to tell people how to play.  It is, however, HTC's place to tell players how to play, at least to a degree. 

Also, consider the kind of game play you are advocating.  One of the participants gets to sit on a hillside for 15-30 or more minutes doing nothing.  That doesn't strike me as something that should be encouraged.

[Changeup]

I explained why rescues that were encouraged by rewards that made it worth the time to do the rescue would be bad for the game.  You disagree because you think players should be able to do what they want with the game as it is their$15/mo and, correctly, that it isn't my place to tell people how to play.  It is, however, HTC's place to tell players how to play, at least to a degree. 

Also, consider the kind of game play you are advocating.  One of the participants gets to sit on a hillside for 15-30 or more minutes doing nothing.  That doesn't strike me as something that should be encouraged.

I am encouraging it could be a fun addition to the game.  Whatever time it takes is up to the rescuer and the rescuee.  In other words, if HiTech were to include the rescue into the game, the "gameplay" Im advocating is up to the players and they don't have to do it...just like the WWI arena or GVing (camping for 30 minutes for absolutely NOTHING...they aren't even being rescued!  They are sitting there waiting for some poor unsuspecting noob to pop in so they can whammo them from a distance that doesn't even put them at risk). 

BTW, running supps out to a busted up GV and dying 7 times to get it there aint much fun either but its in the game.

[bustr]

Since the beginning of World War II, "Storch" was accompanied by German troops are literally everywhere, wherever they go.

The loss of these aircraft were isolated, they said that their front-line life of up to 10 times longer than Bf.109. And this despite the fact that the special rescue units were ordered to take out Wustennotstaffeln officially dead and wounded in battle, as well as the crews of downed aircraft, wherever they are.   For example, in North Africa, Fi-156 C-5 is often flew into the roadless desert to rescue German pilots. Since the late 1941 began a special ambulance version released Fi-156 D-1, which has most of the starboard side held the door hatch for quick loading / unloading of the stretcher.

Wüstennotstaffel 1

Formed 8.41 in Benghazi. Main duties was rescue of downed pilots in the African desert.

In 6.43 redesignated Verbindungsstaffel 400.

Known bases:

Gazala, 12.41
Martuba, 4.42 - 5.42
Derna, 11.41
Tmimi, 12.41
Qutaifiya, 6.42 - 11.42
Castell Benito, 1.43
Medenine, 2.43

Wüstennotstaffel 1

Knight’s Cross
Kroseberg, Heinz 19.06.1942 Hauptmann d.R. Staffelkapitän 1./Wüstennotstaffel

German Cross in Gold
Siegmund, Manfred, 17.06.1942, Oberleutnant, Flugzeugführer im Sonderbildkommando Afrika
----------------------------------------------

The Storch was used for a very wide range of functions, amongst them artillery spotting, reconnaissance, staff liaison, as an air ambulance, to rescue downed airmen from behind enemy lines (especially valuable in North Africa, where it was operated by two rescue squadrons or Wüstennotstaffeln, and in Russia), as a cable laying aircraft, and on a number of special missions.

[muzik]

whiner,

I don't care at all about name in lights or score or perks.

My problem with it is that it is either a waste of coding time or it is bad for the game.  It is a waste of coding time if there is no reward because it will almost never be used.  It is bad for the game if there is a reward large enough to significantly encourage its use because it takes players out of the actual game by rewarding them for doing nothing but sitting on a hillside.

Not that I expect that concept to get through your thick skull as you are too locked into some juvenile jealousy fantasy you are projecting on us.

idiot,

With the exception of the coding, (which you dont have the aptitude to understand in the first place) your whole argument revolves around removing the reward for being rescued. You wont stop coming back to the same argument. It hurts your feelings that someone else lands kills PERIOD. There is no doubt about it. The more you run your mouth, the more you prove it.

As changeup stated and you have no intelligent response to, no more players would be removed from the game than GV'rs who wait for supplies to repair their dead tanks. It is the same concept and tankers still get to land kills.

And again, it's none of your diddlying business what anyone else does with their 15 bucks.

It seems you have a hard time with answering a simple question without throwing insults. If you want the adventure of the rescue and any immersion that goes with it that's a good thing for all involved in the rescue. Its not that I don't want him to get his name in lights. Its is a question of is the action worthy of getting his names in lights anymore than the situations I've posted above about a pilot who has bailed or a pilot forced to ditch short of the runway? In my opinion its not but thats my opinion nothing more. You've given your opinion Changeup has given his, so does that mean you two are obsessive whiners as well? Or is insulting people who have a different opinion from you the only way you two can attempt to get your points across?

I have no problem having civil discussions with intelligent, reasonable people. If you dont like an idea all you have to do is type -1. If you really must prove that an idea is a bad one, it can be done politely by simply asking something like "what if this idea promotes lots of calls on 200 for rescue and removes so many players from the game that it becomes a detriment to gameplay?"

But that is not how these guys operate. They come in and bash ideas. Rudely. And their arguments are idiotic besides. I came in here guns drawn because I have seen enough of their posts to know who they are and the retardation they promote.  My insults are calculated and intentional. Theirs may not be intentional (I dont believe that for a second) or even obvious to others, but I see their bbs bullying as an insult to other players and the game, if not against the rules of the BBS.


The fact is that with enough constructive criticism this idea can be developed and implemented with enough checks and balances to mitigate any negatives that may come with it EXACTLY the way Htc has designed every other aspect of this game.

Some people come to these boards to offer ideas on what those checks and balances might be. Retards come here and say it cant be done (as if they were smart enough to know,) it takes development time away from MY insignificant wishes, it takes players away from MY idea of fun

NO ONE has ever said that any ideas posted on these forums would ever get implemented and these clowns come in here throwing tantrums as if they're on a mission to halt production. BRILLIANT.

[Wiley]

As changeup stated and you have no intelligent response to, no more players would be removed from the game than GV'rs who wait for supplies to repair their dead tanks. It is the same concept and tankers still get to land kills.

Except it's not.  The return trip unless it's a couple miles from the base will eat up way more time to get them back to the fight, whereas the repaired GV is immediately back in the fight.  Not the same thing at all.

Wiley.

[Changeup]

Except it's not.  The return trip unless it's a couple miles from the base will eat up way more time to get them back to the fight, whereas the repaired GV is immediately back in the fight.  Not the same thing at all.

Wiley.

It is the same...the GVer had to wait 10 mins to get the supps in the first place, unless he was resupped by a Storch which is faster than the M3.  You are talking about time HOME, I'm talking about time TO.  What difference does it make whether its on the front end or the back end?

And, if players are doing what they want to do, how are they "removed" from the fight?  Sometimes the game is fighting, sometimes its getting sups out, sometimes its rearming, sometimes its me getting a beer, etc.

Furthermore, if you really think about this scenario, no one is going to ask for a rescue half a sector away from a base....because not very many people would go get them.  But to go down halfway inside the dar ring or closer?...yup....I'd go get you Wiley!  You probably wouldn't wait though because getting back in the fight is more important to you.  That's the value judgement...

[Wiley]

It is the same...the GVer had to wait 10 mins to get the supps in the first place, unless he was resupped by a Storch which is faster than the M3.  You are talking about time HOME, I'm talking about time TO.  What difference does it make whether its on the front end or the back end?

Plenty.  GV sits 10 minutes.  Storch drops supplies.  GV is now combat effective.

Pilot gets shot down.  Has a buddy immediately waiting to get to him.  Storch ups.  Flies 10 minutes (and that's a really short flight) and lands.  Picks guy up.  Flies back 10 minutes.  Rescued pilot now ups again and flies back to fight.

20 minutes to get rescued, still has to fly back to the fight.

Wiley.

[Karnak]

With the exception of the coding, (which you dont have the aptitude to understand in the first place) your whole argument revolves around removing the reward for being rescued. You wont stop coming back to the same argument. It hurts your feelings that someone else lands kills PERIOD. There is no doubt about it. The more you run your mouth, the more you prove it.

You write pretty good English for not being able to read.

Seeing as you are literally incapable of reading, I am done with this.

[muzik]

Except it's not.  The return trip unless it's a couple miles from the base will eat up way more time to get them back to the fight, whereas the repaired GV is immediately back in the fight.  Not the same thing at all.

Wiley.

You shouldnt use arguments with holes in them. They leak.   Your "unless" is just more of the same BS you all have been using this whole argument. You keep making assumptions that arent based on what we already know to be facts. Sometimes GVrs may only wait a couple minutes for supps. Others with more kills might sit there for 20 minutes. Ive seen it plenty of times and so have you.

Downed pilots are not going to be any different. The fact is, people are impatient, lazy, and generally only concerned with their own self gratification. So downed pilots will get bored and tower out (especially if they have no comms) and the general population is going to typically ignore requests for rescue (we already know a few of you who will.)  And the law of averages say that there will be plenty more of you in the arena, so whatever frustration you claim is going to result if this idea is implemented will mitigate the mass rescue missions you THINK will occur.

Ive also seen campers sit on a spot for an hour to avoid getting killed. They might get a few kills that hour, but they are hardly active. With proper tweaking any idea can be implemented and used successfully, along with with another dozen examples of what players MIGHT be doing when they are not participating in combat, your "out of the fight" arguments get blown out of the water.

You write pretty good English for not being able to read.

Seeing as you are literally incapable of reading, I am done with this.

If you write a letter to someone you believe is incapable of reading, your intellect has failed you again. But your true frustration lies with my ability to see through your BS.

[Changeup]

Plenty.  GV sits 10 minutes.  Storch drops supplies.  GV is now combat effective.

Pilot gets shot down.  Has a buddy immediately waiting to get to him.  Storch ups.  Flies 10 minutes (and that's a really short flight) and lands.  Picks guy up.  Flies back 10 minutes.  Rescued pilot now ups again and flies back to fight.

20 minutes to get rescued, still has to fly back to the fight.

Wiley.

Now, add in the fact that your rescued GVer has to drive up to 15 mins  back to base to land his "rescued" kills or just to save his k/d ratio and you are less time back in the battle getting rescued.  We are talking total time...if he would have just died, he could have already respawned.   Hes not getting resupped to die bro.  Nice try though