Author Topic: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea  (Read 2661 times)

Offline bustr

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2012, 01:11:47 PM »

Bustr post....

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Offline Chilli

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2012, 09:55:28 AM »
 :rolleyes:

No one takes me serious as I preach the gospel.  "Base defense is TOO EASY."  Kill one troop and you end a capture.  To see the stalemate that has inflicted on game play, all one has to do is sit through a couple of weeks of Trinity map.  The result of years of "training" through failed base capture attempts, have provided the "players" with the alternative: ie. hording.  If you want a base, then you take it, by taking away any chance of the enemy killing a "single" troop.

Assuming that somewhat equal numbers are in play and their collective stradegy is to win the war, then only the team with the most efficient base captures wins.  What would happen if a map the size of Trinity needed less troops to enter the maproom?  Or, if downtimes were longer forcing defenders to travel longer distances (no more sitting in the tower window, waiting for the goon to appear and sprinting to the maproom in a La7 to strafe down 1 paratrooper)?  How about any of hundreds of ideas that change the game play, so that targets are not the planes sitting on the runway attempting to defend, but rather those in the air about to assist in cutting down on the opposing country's ability to make war?


Offline Nathan60

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2012, 10:12:54 AM »
It was a lot of fun flying light in the mismatched plane that had the advantage from the start.  1 K4 is more than a match for a squadron of NOE P-47s.  I even got some squaddies to join in with the defense.

Kinda feels good don't it?  Should do it more often, luckily for you  the horde didnt all just bail...
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Offline seano

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2012, 01:13:46 PM »
according to the first post the op wants less hording but wants a mission to take a base. missions=numbers=crybabys on the recieving end!

Offline DrBone1

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2012, 01:53:33 PM »
Why try to control how many up at one base?

Why try to control the Hords?


When you can up a 262 and land 10-15 kills each sorties for the next 4 hours of hording.  :rolleyes:


Seriously though ppl cmon Hording is Hording get over it already its always going to happen and will never change either adapt or whine.  :salute
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2012, 02:02:05 PM »
all one has to do is sit through a couple of weeks of Trinity map. 

The reason Trinity lingers like a festering wound isn't because base capture is too easy or too difficult. It is designed around a front that has mountains to separate the countries and is far too large for game play during the off hours.

If what you typed was true, all maps would take a long time to reset, but the MA can go through a small map in just a few hours.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2012, 02:17:23 PM »
Found my numbers again.

Last summer I tracked the map cycle in LW for 3 months.

On average, a map lasted 2 days before being reset. If you split it by type, small maps lasted a day and large maps about 4 days. Trinity had an average up time of 5.4 days each time it was on.
For "the majority of time we play on Trinity": In 95 days, this map was up 5 times with 27 days total (Compello 18 days, Tagma 11 days, Ozkansas 6 days)
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Offline Chilli

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »
The reason Trinity lingers like a festering wound isn't because base capture is too easy or too difficult. It is designed around a front that has mountains to separate the countries and is far too large for game play during the off hours.

If what you typed was true, all maps would take a long time to reset, but the MA can go through a small map in just a few hours.

Well, sort of....  Trinity just magnifies the difficulties in offensive land grab to win the war.  This MISCONCEPTION is that base capture is challenging or that it is kept from 1 or 2 players effecting a whole country.  The truth is, 1 or 2 players do drastically effect the outcome through mission planning or hording as it is referred to in this thread.  As everyone will agree, once you have overwhelmed the defense with brute force, the challenge is gone.

So, what happens.... radar becomes more visible, ground vehicles become less visible, we keep seeing more and more ground guns added to the fields.  Hey, I enjoy all of these changes as much as the next guy..... but let's be real, these are advantages to defense (although vehicle icon range does have a lesser advantage to offensive players). 

In Aces High, I would prefer to find targets in the air.... not the runways.  Sure it is fun piling up kills on helpless kittens wandering onto the runways, but not why I have spent time and invested in dollars to learn how to fly a cartoon plane. 

Every once in a blue moon we have a fun furball somewhere, or squads have become creative in finding ways to envoke a challenge.  MA is just not everyone's cup of tea.  It certainly would not be mine, if it weren't for a good group of friends.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 02:39:15 PM by Chilli »

Offline Chilli

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2012, 02:53:18 PM »
Found my numbers again.

Last summer I tracked the map cycle in LW for 3 months.

On average, a map lasted 2 days before being reset. If you split it by type, small maps lasted a day and large maps about 4 days. Trinity had an average up time of 5.4 days each time it was on.
For "the majority of time we play on Trinity": In 95 days, this map was up 5 times with 27 days total (Compello 18 days, Tagma 11 days, Ozkansas 6 days)

Thanks Lusche,

I appreciate that information and your time spent to share these stats. 

I suppose that I have a slightly different take on some aspects because I have an upside down work schedule that allows me to play some prime time and some off hours.  Offensive game play in off hours seems like the game is designed for "hands off" base capture.  There is the possibility for "milkrunning" maps if field capture were too easy (I don't really care). 

I don't care for milkrun defense because in the last 3 days there have probably been about 6 maps reset (if not more).   The more that you try and prevent something from happening the better folks become at defeating your stradegy.  After all, isn't that how modern warfare has developed?

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2012, 03:44:51 PM »
according to the first post the op wants less hording but wants a mission to take a base. missions=numbers=crybabys on the recieving end!

....and this is why we have hordes. People can't think beyond that narrow idea of "you need numbers to take bases". No, you need SKILL to take bases. When they don't have skill, they fall back on numbers. And why not, after all getting 30-40 guys to join your horde is much easier and quicker than learning how to use tactics and strategies to force the opposing team to get out maneuvered, or out played.

Why try to control how many up at one base?

Why try to control the Hords?


When you can up a 262 and land 10-15 kills each sorties for the next 4 hours of hording.  :rolleyes:


Seriously though ppl cmon Hording is Hording get over it already its always going to happen and will never change either adapt or whine.  :salute

Spoken like a true "picker". If people only wanted to rack up kills on their score broad sure that might be "fun", but what about people who enjoy the challenge of beating another player head to head, or maybe two or three? "Fights" are harder and harder to find. Now a days you spend all your time trying to drag a player or two from the horde to have a fight. Even that is getting rare as those in the horde spend their time trying to dive bomb a target and then vulch until they capture the base or the hangers get dropped.

Well, sort of....  Trinity just magnifies the difficulties in offensive land grab to win the war.  This MISCONCEPTION is that base capture is challenging or that it is kept from 1 or 2 players effecting a whole country.  The truth is, 1 or 2 players do drastically effect the outcome through mission planning or hording as it is referred to in this thread.  As everyone will agree, once you have overwhelmed the defense with brute force, the challenge is gone.

So, what happens.... radar becomes more visible, ground vehicles become less visible, we keep seeing more and more ground guns added to the fields.  Hey, I enjoy all of these changes as much as the next guy..... but let's be real, these are advantages to defense (although vehicle icon range does have a lesser advantage to offensive players). 

In Aces High, I would prefer to find targets in the air.... not the runways.  Sure it is fun piling up kills on helpless kittens wandering onto the runways, but not why I have spent time and invested in dollars to learn how to fly a cartoon plane. 

Every once in a blue moon we have a fun furball somewhere, or squads have become creative in finding ways to envoke a challenge.  MA is just not everyone's cup of tea.  It certainly would not be mine, if it weren't for a good group of friends.


The problem isn't the maps. Trinity in the old days was fun and could be reset as easy as the other maps. The difference is the "skill-less" hordes. There is no defense against the horde. Once it gets started it will roll along until the horde leaders log or the map is won. Defense doesn't have enough warning to get together any type of organized defense. So in stead like I saw this past weekend you have 40 players attacking at 5k, half of them in B17 formations flying in from "40" miles out. That's 80 planes attacking in under ten minutes from lift off to bombs hitting the ground. Defense was 8 guys, The smart thing to do would be to hunt for goons in LA's, heck it's the ONLY thing to do. I don't care how good you are, nobody is taking down 10 guys each and surviving in that mess.

Horde game play is here to stay until HTC does something about it. The reason is, it is far easier to join a horde than it is to learn skills. A couple guys in pony's can protect a goon from La's if they are skill enough to work together. Add in that you could use tactics and have goons coming from a number of "odd" directions (instead of on a strait line from the attacking base  :rolleyes: ), or even an M3 or two and you have even a better chance. Until the "skill-less" are forced to gain some skills they will count on numbers instead.

Offline lyric1

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »
Place CV style puffy ack around towns and triple the numbers. At least the hoard will have to stay below 3k to get near the town. Defenders will be able to BnZ them with impunity. Then if they bring their own mobile ack barge inshore everyone has to stay below 3k.

Maybe it's time to increase the town percentage down for white flag to 30-100% and shorten the ack and building respawn time. Then tack on 1-2 required captured feilds to reset the map. Or those 1-2 required feilds have the additional ack and modified times. My reasoning for the modified times on 1-2 key feilds is this being a game, the hoards are being used to circumvent having to fight for an objective by weight of shear numbers. Not to pick a fight to draw up defenders to play with as part of the reward of ultimatly taking the objective.

The WW2 Operation Corkscrew, the capture of Pantelleria was one of the first authentic aircraft hoarding operations in the world. Over 10 days 14,000 bombs were dropped on the island. Our hoarding is not without precidence. But, in the real WW2 men died and it was understandable trying methods to save lives while attempting to shorten the war.

A polar difference from our established near nightly hoard is when some of the older established squads from thier country decide to roll feilds once in awhile. The fights are vicious due to the veterens involved and the coordinated timing and delivery of assets against the objective leaves littel room to make mistakes while defending. It's as adrenalin pumping and white knuckle as randomly getting into a 1vs 1 with no interuption against a hot vet who knows what he's doing. We simply don't see as much activity by older squads in hoard numbers anymore as our ever constant near nightly RollemHarry Hoard.

Every few years Hitech has tweeked the game in minor and major ways, ostensibly to influence player motivation and subsiquent activity methods to achive in game goals. In each instance these were either in response to obvious community degenerative issues or seemingly capricious, resulting in at least one large ingroup being deprived of their game dominance. The resulting howling in this forum in itself was often worth the short adaptation period inconvienence of the Hitech induced change.

At the moment we seem too stable and complacent.

Our complaints are more ritualistc now as if a requirement to belch during a meal to compliment the host. This game is not a contest to see who can complain the loudest or most. Or a contest to see who can cause the most trouble in the forum while escaping official sensure. At the moment these activities have more passion in them than what takes place in the Arena. 

The more realistic town does require a hoard to efficiently take it down opposed to the old style town that 3 players late at night could drop with 2-110 and NOE a goon to drop troops. Or one box of Lancs in one pass and a goon. We were complacent and stable back then complaining about many of the same issues. Hitech invariably would tweek something making us uncomfortable while we adapted. But, during that adaptation period we would change for awhile. We took risks and fought more outside of being part of comfortable groups while we attempted to game the change and become comfortable again.

I for one would vote for some Hitech induced game discomfort about now. At least the forum complaints would have some new life to them.


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Offline Zoney

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2012, 03:58:22 PM »
Why try to control how many up at one base?

Why try to control the Hords?


When you can up a 262 and land 10-15 kills each sorties for the next 4 hours of hording.  :rolleyes:


Seriously though ppl cmon Hording is Hording get over it already its always going to happen and will never change either adapt or whine.  :salute


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Offline Noir

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2012, 05:08:21 AM »
In Aces High, I would prefer to find targets in the air.... not the runways.  Sure it is fun piling up kills on helpless kittens wandering onto the runways, but not why I have spent time and invested in dollars to learn how to fly a cartoon plane. 


too much manned acks, too much gvs, the air game is rather stale nowadays.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2012, 05:29:33 AM »
too much gvs


GV usage is in the same order of magnitude as 5 or 10 years ago...
In 2003 players spent about 20% of their time in GV's, last year it was 21%.  :old:


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Offline MAINER

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Re: Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2012, 07:08:17 AM »
I don't think it would work very well -1
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