Anti-hording, pro-strategy idea

[SEseph]

GV usage is in the same order of magnitude as 5 or 10 years ago...
In 2003 players spent about 20% of their time in GV's, last year it was 21%. 


 

Leave it to Lusche to destroy a perfectly good argument with his silly facts.   

[Noir]

Leave it to Lusche to destroy a perfectly good argument with his silly facts.   

I still have the perception card!

From what I see there is too much GV/ack 'action'.

How many times you beat 5 enemy fighters nowhere near their ack, only to find out they didn't re-up to challenge you and are instead trying a desperate 37/88mm kill from miles away.
How many times you log in, there is not a single darbar at your borders, only a huge boring spawn camp going on 

[Lusche]

I still have the perception card!

Dang!  

How many times you log in, there is not a single darbar at your borders, only a huge boring spawn camp going on  

Each time Trinity is on and I'm in the western Country 

But that's not due to being more GV in game, or players tanking more (as shown earlier), but because of that particular map layout.
And I see also maps, which don't have much GV action at all. So it all depends on when and where you are online, but in the end nothing much has happened to overall GV usage (as depicted by hours played) over the last 10 years. Though since the new GV control system was introduced, numbers did went up, but "only" to like 24% so far. (Which by the way is particular fascinating as I was told on the BBS as well as in game that "all the tankers have left" and "hardly anyone drives GV these days" just because of the new system )

[Chilli]

Putting more defences is the root cause of bigger missions to begin with.
Stick all the defencive tools in you like.
Guess what the gaggle will be bigger again.

Amen......  Lyric and I must be the only members of this particular faith 

Edited for epiphany:  Maybe the Me410 will single handedly take down a town, kill the ack ack, and land ten troops at the maproom (..... if flown by Chuck Norris)

[matt]

I have a film I took Saturday that shows the bish taking a45. There were so many that they don't show.up in the film. There was 40-48 of them with about 20 in b17s for a grand total of 80+ planes against 8 defenders.

Yup sure was fun! 

So when rook and nits take a base with over whelming numbers
what do you call it? 

[Tilt]

unlimited access to rides at any base + human tendancy to find safety in packs = hordes.

to balance one you must limit/alter the other.

Any other change just modifies game play without affecting horde tendancy. Make capture easier the Horde will capture more easily, make it harder, and  the horde will capture with greater difficulty...... but its still a horde and regardless of suicidal lemming tendancies it will dominate the local game play.

Some can "farm" it, others fall foul of it depending upon where they get their game play enjoyment. Others it seems just like to talk about it.

[Delirium]

too much manned acks, too much gvs, the air game is rather stale nowadays.

How do manned acks make the air game 'stale'? If anything, it cuts down a bit on vulching...

[The Fugitive]

So when rook and nits take a base with over whelming numbers
what do you call it? 

Wow, a bit defensive there. I'll bet that if you told me your in game name that I would find you on the roster in that film.

In this case I was speaking of a specific mission I witnessed, but to answer your question they would be called hordes even if they are knight or rook. Make you feel better?

I have said it a.hundred times all sides have hordes.

[Gr8pape]

I have read the original post and at least agree with bringing the zone strats back, the one location of strats was a good idea but in reality turned out to be bad, imo.

[Noir]

How do manned acks make the air game 'stale'? If anything, it cuts down a bit on vulching...

If these players in the ack grabbed a plane instead of a gun we could have a fight. I agree it's a tool against vulching, but the tendency seems to get an ack gun when its not particularly needed.

[Wiley]

How do manned acks make the air game 'stale'? If anything, it cuts down a bit on vulching...

I wouldn't say 'stale' partictularly, as the air game doesn't seem to have changed materially much since 2000.  However, what subjectively, unscientifically seems to me to happen at times is that the majority of people are GVing or gunning, not flying.

Last night I logged in for a bit around 10:00 EST and on all fronts, there was almost nothing in the air.  I watched the dar for around 15 minutes, couldn't find a single decent sized fight, my rough estimation of planes in the air showing on dar would be at best 15-20 per front, spread out over many, many sectors, generally.  ~300 people on, I'd guesstimate no more than 100 planes in the air.

Maybe there was a vast NOE horde going somewhere during that time period, but I don't think it likely.

I've noticed something else happen a fair bit lately, now whether it happens more lately or I just noticed it happen more lately is up for debate.

A bunch of aircraft take a run at a base.  The stars align, and enough people up to defend that the air attack gets stopped.  Some damage to the town, some damage to the field.  About 10% of the number of attacking aircraft reup, and a bunch of GVs appear to press the attack.

*shrug*  It's not a terrible idea, but it kind of feels like another evolution of avoiding combat because not that many people who want to defend in the air are all that interested in bombing GVs or GVing.

Wiley.

[titanic3]

Again: Put in a tank town on every map just like on ndisle or maps with similar tank towns.

3 large airfields
3 VH

Let the base takers do their crap somewhere else, let the guys who want to dogfight and furball do it in TT. The fields are porked 24/7 in TT anyway, so the GVs only have to fear dedicated ground attack planes, and if those got through to them, then they can blame their air cover.

[DrBone1]

....and this is why we have hordes. People can't think beyond that narrow idea of "you need numbers to take bases". No, you need SKILL to take bases. When they don't have skill, they fall back on numbers. And why not, after all getting 30-40 guys to join your horde is much easier and quicker than learning how to use tactics and strategies to force the opposing team to get out maneuvered, or out played.

Spoken like a true "picker". If people only wanted to rack up kills on their score broad sure that might be "fun", but what about people who enjoy the challenge of beating another player head to head, or maybe two or three? "Fights" are harder and harder to find. Now a days you spend all your time trying to drag a player or two from the horde to have a fight. Even that is getting rare as those in the horde spend their time trying to dive bomb a target and then vulch until they capture the base or the hangers get dropped.


The problem isn't the maps. Trinity in the old days was fun and could be reset as easy as the other maps. The difference is the "skill-less" hordes. There is no defense against the horde. Once it gets started it will roll along until the horde leaders log or the map is won. Defense doesn't have enough warning to get together any type of organized defense. So in stead like I saw this past weekend you have 40 players attacking at 5k, half of them in B17 formations flying in from "40" miles out. That's 80 planes attacking in under ten minutes from lift off to bombs hitting the ground. Defense was 8 guys, The smart thing to do would be to hunt for goons in LA's, heck it's the ONLY thing to do. I don't care how good you are, nobody is taking down 10 guys each and surviving in that mess.

Horde game play is here to stay until HTC does something about it. The reason is, it is far easier to join a horde than it is to learn skills. A couple guys in pony's can protect a goon from La's if they are skill enough to work together. Add in that you could use tactics and have goons coming from a number of "odd" directions (instead of on a strait line from the attacking base   ), or even an M3 or two and you have even a better chance. Until the "skill-less" are forced to gain some skills they will count on numbers instead.

Spoken like a true veteran baby seal, This is not the DA if you go into the MA looking for 1v1 fights then you have proven my point of you being one of the most gullible lemmings in the AH sky.

You say its the fight you are looking for well in my opinion nothing gets my blood pumping more than a 2v1 or 3v1 maybe you are not up to that level yet.  

On a more serious note I have watched you fight/fly and I must say I am not surprised how you responded to my post because it was directed at folk like you.

EDIT: I am always up for some 1v1s in the DA if you are feeling lucky

[Chilli]

unlimited access to rides at any base + human tendancy to find safety in packs = hordes.

to balance one you must limit/alter the other.

Any other change just modifies game play without affecting horde tendancy. Make capture easier the Horde will capture more easily, make it harder, and  the horde will capture with greater difficulty...... but its still a horde and regardless of suicidal lemming tendancies it will dominate the local game play.

Some can "farm" it, others fall foul of it depending upon where they get their game play enjoyment. Others it seems just like to talk about it.

What I have commented on quite a bit has been that the changes implemented in game play have been 98 percent defensive.  No need to call those who have found a way to defeat such defenses names. 

Again I beg of anyone to follow this logic:  When base capture (easier) meets, close to even odds for defense, the hording of resourses to capture 1 or 2 bases will take away from the defense of a number of bases, that vulnerability would be exploited.  The result would be more fights with smaller numbers spread throughout the map (period). 

I really don't think that after having a crap day at work, coming home and having a crap day at play is what I signed up for.  At one time it was nice to look at a map and see several different fights to choose from.  It was even nicer to have a small group of several players easily capture a field.

As for the stats, you will find that I have far less troop carrier trips as time goes on.  I salute those that are still willing.   

[JUGgler]

Spoken like a true veteran baby seal, This is not the DA if you go into the MA looking for 1v1 fights then you have proven my point of you being one of the most gullible lemmings in the AH sky.

You say its the fight you are looking for well in my opinion nothing gets my blood pumping more than a 2v1 or 3v1 maybe you are not up to that level yet.  

On a more serious note I have watched you fight/fly and I must say I am not surprised how you responded to my post because it was directed at folk like you.

EDIT: I am always up for some 1v1s in the DA if you are feeling lucky

   



I believe Fugi prefers 1v1, 1v2 maybe even 1v3. I can see how you get excited and "blood pumping" by having a 2v1, 3v1 advantage but I'm quite sure Fugi doesn't roll that way  

Scalping at the edge of an enemy base with alt and #s isn't how Fugi rolls!!


You have your style, Fugi has his!!!!  




JUGgler