Author Topic: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World  (Read 2339 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2012, 09:26:58 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 11:31:01 AM by Skuzzy »
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2012, 03:15:17 AM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 11:31:20 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2012, 03:21:57 AM »
Word is the US has a few they bought from a third world country to keep them out of others hands. No info on if they have been flown or not.
You could buy your own at one point.
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Offline Melvin

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2012, 06:57:20 AM »
Not as yet.

But the US is on the decline. China is on the rise. Should the time come, and it will eventually, the US will cease to be the dominant power in the world.

Persia, Rome, French, Russian, British, Nazi Germany, Soviet empires, are all gone. The US's is on the decline, soon will be the age of the PDR Of China. And that is already beginning now.




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Offline Rich52

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2012, 07:03:00 AM »
Thats a swell analogy except for one fact. The USA is NOT an Empire. We dont rule over conquered countries, we dont keep no slaves, we have a Constitution garunteeing individual rights. Even in our alliances when a host country asks us to leave we leave. Even our troops stationed there are subject to host country Law.

Why is it every time some Dicatatorship rolls out a weapon in a parade, or releases a news bite, made by their Govt., we all go willy nilly about our own upcoming demise and out supposed Allies in the world all predict a missile heading to our Death Stars reactor and the end of our "Empire". WHAT fracking Empire?


Not as yet.

But the US is on the decline. China is on the rise. Should the time come, and it will eventually, the US will cease to be the dominant power in the world.

Persia, Rome, French, Russian, British, Nazi Germany, Soviet empires, are all gone. The US's is on the decline, soon will be the age of the PDR Of China. And that is already beginning now.


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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2012, 07:32:57 AM »
Guam..... cough......

And who needs slaves when you move all your business offshore with workforces who work for less than 10$ a day.

The USA is an Empire by other means.

And The Chinese, I am scared of them, the fact my country is right next to them, and the fact that your country owes over 1 Trillion dollars to them, and the fact they comprise the majority of our manufacturing and service needs.

No one sees a danger there.

But we are off the topic here.

The USA underestimates its enemies dangerously.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 07:37:14 AM by Plawranc »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2012, 08:48:56 AM »
When the warring parties have nuclear weapons no one can "win". They can only scuffle about with conventional forces for a while and then "compromise".
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Offline Rich52

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2012, 12:05:47 PM »
Quote
The USA underestimates its enemies dangerously.

Whatever you do dont lay any facts or supportive material on us. We might get confused and think were actually talking to somone knowledgable about military systems and capabilities.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2012, 12:30:32 PM »
Guam..... cough......

And who needs slaves when you move all your business offshore with workforces who work for less than 10$ a day.

The USA is an Empire by other means.

And The Chinese, I am scared of them, the fact my country is right next to them, and the fact that your country owes over 1 Trillion dollars to them, and the fact they comprise the majority of our manufacturing and service needs.

No one sees a danger there.

But we are off the topic here.

The USA underestimates its enemies dangerously.


I'm not so sure about that. Yes, the United States is on the decline. But thats more of an issue with weak leadership recently, not due to any inherent flaw in our country, or some natural progression of government.

I've never believed in all that crap about empire's naturally declining, or losing power or any of that nonsense. All the empires that have declined and fallen were either starting out technologicaly inferior to their opponents and were subjugated, had weak leadership that refused to face facts and admit that they WERE declining and needed to do something about it, or attempted to expand too far beyond their means of control.


Now the US is neither starting from a point of technolgical inferiority (quite the opposite infact), or attempting over-expansion. That leaves weak leadership as the biggest threat to the Republic, and its entirely upto us how things go from this point.


Furthermore, I doubt China is all ready and eager to start a war. As you said, we owe them trillions. For another thing, we're a major purchaser of their goods, and thats something that won't continue in the event of war. And lastly, war is expensive. They lose the money we already owe them, they lose future profits from us, AND they spend untold billions or even trillions on a war. That doesn't sound like its in their interests.


And finally, I doubt we'll cease being a dominant power. We might cease being the dominant power (as in the only one), as China and perhaps India join us as 'Superpowers'. Fact is that we're just too large, populous, and pushy to slip into the level of reduced influence held by many countrys such as France, Canada, the UK, etc. No matter what the current situation looks like, the power the United States can bring to bear will only be lying dormant, it won't have disapeared.


A simmilar situation can be seen in Russia. They have the potential to be a Superpower, the power the USSR had is still there in large measure, its simply lying dormant. The only reason that power is even decreased is that Russia lost many of its sattelite states, and a simmilar situation would have to occur in the USA for our power to even be reduced.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2012, 02:12:25 PM »
The U.S. isn't in a decline and will always be a major international player. It's just that the emerging powers like India and China might one day rival or supersede the U.S. in economic and military power. That is to their credit (clawing their way into the 21st century), not due to any failure of the U.S.

GDP (2011)

Old powers
EU: $17,577,691 million (Population: 502,486,499)
US: $15,094,025 million (Population: 313,527,000)

Emerging powers
China: $7,298,147 million (Population: 1,347,350,000)
India: $1,676,143 million (population: 1,210,193,422)

They still have a very long way to go...
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Offline Rino

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2012, 03:03:39 PM »
     I guess it doesn't hurt that the US has allowed China's trade imbalance to grow to rediculous levels?
I was reading a few months ago that China's future may not be as rosy as it looks right now.  Something about the rural areas
wanting a share of the urban pie.  Also they are starting to feeling the gender gap...that one chold policy having unintended
consequences.

     Of course with over 4 times the population of the US, it's not inconceivable that they could "catch up".  :D
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2012, 03:07:22 PM »


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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2012, 03:24:29 PM »
     I guess it doesn't hurt that the US has allowed China's trade imbalance to grow to rediculous levels?
I was reading a few months ago that China's future may not be as rosy as it looks right now.  Something about the rural areas
wanting a share of the urban pie.  Also they are starting to feeling the gender gap...that one chold policy having unintended
consequences.

     Of course with over 4 times the population of the US, it's not inconceivable that they could "catch up".  :D


That's their problem right there; with four times the population they would need four times the U.S. GDP just to match the U.S. in wealth. Right now India and China is spending most of their GDP on feeding their people and providing basic services, and they're both still far from providing even the most basic services to all of their populations. Thousands of people starve to death in India and China, every day.
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2012, 03:41:05 PM »
No one sees a danger there.


The USA underestimates its enemies dangerously.
You're laying the assumptions on rather thick.

Offline Squire

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Re: Su-27 The Best Fighter In The World
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2012, 03:46:20 PM »
Wars are not won by who has the best fighter plane. So you can debate the stats of the Su-27s radar compared to the F-18Es engine reliability till hell freezes over it will not predict the outcome of a yet to be fought campaign in the future. Janes World Military Aircraft books are not crystal balls as to future world events as much as we like to hope they are. "My fighter is bigger than your fighter" is really not much help there.

Secondly the world will do one thing for certain. It will change. It will not stay the same. Of that you can be sure. The enemy of tommorow? who can say, its usually not the ones you think it will be and the dangers often come from unexpected places and directions. History teaches us that.

On western military hardware I will say this: Its troubling what the costs have become with ships, tanks and planes. One has to wonder about sustainability in a large multi-year conflict. I get the sense that many governments worry too much about what kind of economic spinoff a particular defense project has rather than whats the best thing to give to the military. Huge, multi-billion dollar programs might be good for business but I ask if its best for the air force or the navy or the army? sometimes at least, perhaps not. I look at the ever shrinking air forces around the world and I wonder how much longer these extremely expensive aircraft can be afforded? where are the light attack fighters? they are all these multi-role-do-everything-superfighters big on promises but largely untested. Can you afford to lose any in a real shooting war?

A general once said that "all war ends in mud". Its worth remembering.
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