Author Topic: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery  (Read 21950 times)

Offline Slade

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A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« on: July 06, 2012, 02:13:24 PM »
Hello,

At least weekly I run into a pilot so good in an A20 that my jaw is dropped.  E retention as good as any late war fighter. Can turn inside a Spit.  Dive with me.  Climb with me.  I mean wow!!!!!!!!!  :eek:

When I encounter such a pilot in this plane it is night and day. 

1. Has anyone else encountered this?

2. Were there really any A20's in WWII that could compete so completely with a late war fighter?

3. If not, is this bird really that exploitable?

Thanks for educating me,

Slade  :salute
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Offline lyric1

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 02:21:27 PM »
Western allies did not use this aircraft in this manner they would run as they had been trained to do if threatened.

The Russians how ever did use it as fighter/night fighter & sketchy reports of it being used in dog fights with kills to it's credit.

I think it depended on who flew it & how they were trained to do so?

Offline ink

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 02:26:37 PM »
for one...the slower plane will often out turn the faster plane.....like a pony out turning a zero when the zero is to fast....

for  two....the driver of the A20 is very used to that plane...and knows how to fight, a deadly combo :aok




Offline mthrockmor

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 02:29:42 PM »
Some guy named "cobra" something? Don't worry, hes an aberration, with a few knock-offs. The rest are just targets.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 02:38:14 PM »
2. Were there really any A20's in WWII that could compete so completely with a late war fighter?

3. If not, is this bird really that exploitable?

Thanks for educating me,

Slade  :salute

2. No
3. Yes.  The reason why is that the restrictions placed on the A-20 (USAAF pilots were ordered not to do aerobatics or fly inverted) aren't in place in game.  In reality, under USAAF service the A-20 never had any A2A kills from dogfighting, the only A2A kills were scored by the P-70 (night fighter variant of the Havoc) and those numbered less than half a dozen and was pretty much considered ineffective as a night fighter.

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Offline USRanger

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 03:13:46 PM »
Cobia38 is very good in the A-20 if that's who it is.
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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 04:07:29 PM »
Cobia38 is very good in the A-20 if that's who it is.

Yes Cobia38 & others who use differential throttle controls to slow the inside turn and speed up the outside turn. They do a similar trick in Lancs & other big gangley birds.  :aok saw one beat several fighters in a row down deep in a canyon one day.   :salute
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Offline save

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ASY
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »
must be the best fighter in the world , first it out turned my A8 EASY (most planes can do that flying slow, including some 4 engined buffs though (!) , shooting with its rear gunners through the whole high G turn losing one aileron , after that ,on my six, i just gasped in dismay, taking some hits killing oil tank from behind at 800 yards, then dived away, seeing the bloody thing drop its 3 tons of ordnance  on the town below (more than my plane total weight at 25% fuel).

Now someone tell me, is this for real ?

Im not the best pilot in the game by far, but something ainīt right.

 
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 04:31:20 PM »
It can't fight uphill.  Go up and it loses.
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Offline ink

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Re: ASY
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 04:36:55 PM »
must be the best fighter in the world , first it out turned my A8 EASY (most planes can do that flying slow, including some 4 engined buffs though (!) , shooting with its rear gunners through the whole high G turn losing one aileron , after that ,on my six, i just gasped in dismay, taking some hits killing oil tank from behind at 800 yards, then dived away, seeing the bloody thing drop its 3 tons of ordnance  on the town below (more than my plane total weight at 25% fuel).

Now someone tell me, is this for real ?

Im not the best pilot in the game by far, but something ainīt right.

 

there is nothing wrong at all...Cobia is a master of his aircraft...that is all......

I wish I had 5 dollars for every time someone told me......I cant do what I was doing in the plane I was in. :aok

Offline save

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 04:42:45 PM »
well I would not try outdistance an a20 going uphill in an a8 with 4*20mm at 8k, A8 does much better outaccelerating fighters going downhill.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »
well I would not try outdistance an a20 going uphill in an a8 with 4*20mm at 8k, A8 does much better outaccelerating fighters going downhill.

It isn't even close.  Go up:

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Offline Widewing

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 05:51:46 PM »
It isn't even close.  Go up:

(Image removed from quote.)

The chart reflects full internal fuel. With 25% fuel, the A-20G climbs much better. Typically, 50% fuel is the most I will load. When fighting defensively, I take 25% (that's good for about 15 minutes).

Then there's that physics thing... Inertia. We tested the A-20 along side a Yak-9U. Level at 350 mph with the A-20 just 400 yards behind, the Yak goes pure vertical, and the A-20 follows. What happens? The A-20 closes to 200 yards and the Yak stalls first (about two seconds difference). Compared to the best climbers, Spit 16 and 109K-4, the A-20 maintains pace long enough to kill the fighter (again, in the pure vertical). So, if you're flying a fighter, you had better have a significant E advantage, or be higher to begin.

The A-20 is not a fighter, but you can catch many players flat-footed and give them a beating. This results from decent performance, and the fact that most players do not expect an A-20 to be very aggressive and certainly not flown by a very dangerous and capable pilot.

So, how does one cope with an expertly flown A-20? Well, you have to exercise sound judgement.

I fly the A-20 as a fighter frequently, and when not flying from a capped field (which I do just for fun), can often maintain a 4/1 K/D with it. Here's my advice.

1) Never assume that the A-20 is not piloted by an expert stick until proven otherwise.
2) Treat the A-20 with respect. It's far more capable than any other medium bomber, and a can give some fighters a very hard time.
3) Be prepared to unload and get separation if you find yourself Co-E with an aggressive A-20.
4) Maintain your E state to begin, get above the A-20 if possible without allowing the range to close to gun range.
5) Never go pure vertical with an A-20 that has a similar E state, especially if it's already within or close to effective gun range. If you are going to go up, spiral climb. Never do a straight climb Co-E. A spiral climb causes the A-20 to turn tighter to pull lead. The associated induced drag will quickly eat into the A-20's E faster than that of the fighter (especially, a late-war, high performance fighter).
6) Watch out for the over-shoot. It's easy to scrub speed from the A-20.. A common defensive maneuver for A-20 sticks is to enter a gradual turn, slowing tightening the radius. As the faster attacking fighter pulls harder to get lead, the A-20 will roll level and pull up into a big barrel roll, ending up on your six, guns blazing.
7) A-20s are vulnerable to front quarter shots, especially from above. There's no pilot protection from the upper front (windshield is not armored) and not much from other nose-on angles.
8) A-20s have external views, which means that sometimes, they can see you when you can't see them. They are very hard to sneak up on, with no blind spots.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 05:53:17 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline MK-84

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2012, 05:57:28 PM »
Those charts must assume 100% fuel then?

I'm in an A20 now at about 12k and I'm got a ROC over 2 until 10k or so. with about 35% fuel no bombs

Offline titanic3

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Re: A20 Tie Fighter Mystery
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 06:00:12 PM »
Roll with them?  :noid

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

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