150 octane fuel

[icepac]

As far as 150 octane fuel goes, yes. It doesn't change the engine management itself really. It simply enables the engine run at higher boost which generates more horsepower provided that the supercharger is able to deliver the air needed at the altitude in question.

Only real difference in engine management would be the different value which the boost gauge would be showing as the throttle is pushed to max. allowable power.

How exactly wouldn't people in AH know how to take advantage of the higher boost/power output??

It is true that most here wouldn't know how to start a real WWII fighter but the engine management doesn't change with the grade of fuel. They wouldn't know how to start one no matter which fuel it has in its' tanks and none of this is applicable to AH anyway.

I started my mechanical career working on radials.

I am currently an engine management system engineer.

Read this f4u manual and get back to me on the complexities of engine management.

http://wwarii.com/content/Manuals/%5Baviation%5D%20-%20%5Bmanuals%5D%20-%20F4U%20Corsair%20Pilots%20Manual.pdf

[Wmaker]

I started my mechanical career working on radials.

I am currently an engine management system engineer.

Read this f4u manual and get back to me on the complexities of engine management.

http://wwarii.com/content/Manuals/%5Baviation%5D%20-%20%5Bmanuals%5D%20-%20F4U%20Corsair%20Pilots%20Manual.pdf

I really don't care what is your position or what you do. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Instead of telling me about yourself, why don't you address my arguments instead?

Tell me, what exactly is incorrect in my post?

[icepac]

If we required pilots in aces high to be tasked with managing an engine, most wouldn't know how to get anything out of 150 octane anyway.

Since you decided the above text was worth quoting, why not actually address the quote as quoted instead of making an assumption and diverging from the quote you are answering?

[Wmaker]

Since you decided the above text was worth quoting, why not actually address the quote as quoted instead of making an assumption and diverging from the quote you are answering?

I already did. Right here:

As far as 150 octane fuel goes, yes. It doesn't change the engine management itself really. It simply enables the engine run at higher boost which generates more horsepower provided that the supercharger is able to deliver the air needed at the altitude in question.

Only real difference in engine management would be the different value which the boost gauge would be showing as the throttle is pushed to max. allowable power.

How exactly wouldn't people in AH know how to take advantage of the higher boost/power output??

It is true that most here wouldn't know how to start a real WWII fighter but the engine management doesn't change with the grade of fuel. They wouldn't know how to start one no matter which fuel it has in its' tanks and none of this is applicable to AH anyway.

The issue itself won't change no matter where you work or how much you spin it. Only thing different from the pilot's perpective is what the MAP gauge reads and the increased power output and the increased flight performance due to it.

[icepac]

The quote you are responding to is a general quote on how the average aces high pilot would not have a clue managing an engine.

If they can't manage an engine, then 150 octane is a pearl before swine.

[Wmaker]

The quote you are responding to is a general quote on how the average aces high pilot would not have a clue managing an engine.

If they can't manage an engine, then 150 octane is a pearl before swine.

 

Whatever. Spin it as much as you wan.t the fuel doesn't change the little "engine management" is in game nor does it change engine management in real life, which is what you said initially.

I don't care about you not understanding or knowing about it, it's just that I didn't want anyone who's reading this thread to get wrong impression about the issue.

[bustr]

The MAP and Boost guages can already register 75Hg or 25 Boost.

You guys are certaintly shy of history and the truth about the last 11 months of the war. What next Guppy, you going to ask that all Spitfires post 6\42 be reduced to +10 boost to help make the MA less dominated by dweebfires in low furballs?

I understand the Merlin66\266 spits mostly pounded mud during the last 11 months and probably never saw a D9 or K4. The first merlin66 squaderons to convert to 150 happened in 3\44. The P51D and SpitXIV ranged all over the continent as air supieriority fighters. And you don't even want to see the SpitXIV at 150 Grade.

I can understand HTC needing to "Phar Lap" the P51D in favor of every Jonny, George, and Bubba wanting to up our American WW2 pride unperked. Most of the player base will never know it's a castraty pony with some voicing discontent about the performance. Not ever being able to place a finger on just whats wrong. While many of this audience will do everything they can to help them beleive they are uneducated ideots rather than tell them the truth about their pretty little pony's vet visit validating their suspicions.

 Guppy, the spit14 flys like a dump truck on the deck on 125 or 130 grade and we both know it was cleared for and flown on 150 Grade as an air superiority fighter over the continent. They were using 150 for anti-Diver operations. That would be worth a perk increase for the spit14 since it's already perked for it's sort of uber performance. At least it would be worth paying the perks on a 150 Grade burning SpitXIV.

[Karnak]

At least it would be worth paying the perks on a 150 Grade burning SpitXIV.

That is my take.  I can understand not putting the 150 octane on the P-51B, P-51D, P-47M, Mosquito Mk VI and Spitfire Mk XVI.  The Spitfire Mk XIV is already perked, and does badly as a perk plane, and thus seems ripe for getting 150 octane.  They could add it to the Tempest Mk V as well, but that would need a perk increase.

[Guppy35]

The MAP and Boost guages can already register 75Hg or 25 Boost.

You guys are certaintly shy of history and the truth about the last 11 months of the war. What next Guppy, you going to ask that all Spitfires post 6\42 be reduced to +10 boost to help make the MA less dominated by dweebfires in low furballs?

I understand the Merlin66\266 spits mostly pounded mud during the last 11 months and probably never saw a D9 or K4. The first merlin66 squaderons to convert to 150 happened in 3\44. The P51D and SpitXIV ranged all over the continent as air supieriority fighters. And you don't even want to see the SpitXIV at 150 Grade.

I can understand HTC needing to "Phar Lap" the P51D in favor of every Jonny, George, and Bubba wanting to up our American WW2 pride unperked. Most of the player base will never know it's a castraty pony with some voicing discontent about the performance. Not ever being able to place a finger on just whats wrong. While many of this audience will do everything they can to help them beleive they are uneducated ideots rather than tell them the truth about their pretty little pony's vet visit validating their suspicions.

 Guppy, the spit14 flys like a dump truck on the deck on 125 or 130 grade and we both know it was cleared for and flown on 150 Grade as an air superiority fighter over the continent. They were using 150 for anti-Diver operations. That would be worth a perk increase for the spit14 since it's already perked for it's sort of uber performance. At least it would be worth paying the perks on a 150 Grade burning SpitXIV.

Ok so add 150 octane.  Are we going to add the different German fuels that gave them more oomph?  I guess I've flown the 38g so long that now flying the Mustang it sure feels like a hot rod.  In the end my only concern is does it create more problems then it helps by adding new higher octane fuels.  Does it create better play or worse.  Will it create more hanger queens or less.

Please don't throw the history at me though bustr.  I know the history.  I'm trying to look at the overall.  Funny part is it isn't really up to me anyway 

[RTHolmes]

fuel is like reliability - HT models all aircraft with the same reliability so its a level playing field and the fight depends on the aircraft spec and the pilot. in AH reliability is 100% and everyone gets the same fuel. if you want realism give tigers a 50% chance of a transmission failure due to sabotaged components by slave labour and just the LW RAF aircraft get 150 ...

[MK-84]

I do not think its a good idea at all.

If I'm in my aircraft, flying against my enemy I know my planes strengths and weaknesses vs my opponent.

If I attack a spitfire in my fw190 I know what my plane is better at, and worse at.  The last thing I want is the unknown, which would be "am i fighting a super spit, or a regular one"  It completly throws off how I would attack and fight it.  For gameplay purposes this is bad.

A specific aircraft should have the performace of the typical version as was historically used. No more, no less, and in the context of the game.  (i.e ignore the V1 defense units for example, it is not in context with our game)

If I fight a spit14, they should all fly like a spit14, not a regular model or a super model.  I do not want to guess at my opponents performance, I have the ability right now to figure it out.  Adding perked performance ruins that.

[Karnak]

MK-84,

The suggestion for the Spitfire Mk XIV is that it would be redone with 150 octane, +21lbs boost.  Every Spitfire Mk XIV that you meet would be the same, all on 150 octane.  As it is the perk price is not justified, boosting it from +18lbs boost to +21lbs boost might actually make it a worthy perk fighter.

[Fox]

I am confused about some of the information Bustr posted about the 150 octane and the P51D.  I thought that the P51D started out using 130 (?) octane and then later was upgraded to 150.  However by the dates Bustr shows, the P51D was introduced about the same time as the start of the 150 octane fuel.  Did the P51D ever really use the lower octane fuel or did most of them use the 150 octane?

Also, didn't the octane of the fuel used by the allies change more than once during the war.  Wasn't the fuel octane increased from 87 to 100 during the Battle of Britian and then increased again at a later point to 130 octane?  If so, I would assume that the planes are modeled with the fuel that was in use at the time they saw service.  I believe the same sort of situation happened with the Germans.

[Guppy35]

It was not introduced for the P51D.  It was used by any number of birds  in the later part of 44 and into 45 but it was not universally used by all Allied fighters.  Initial use would have been for those chasing the V-1s and stationed in England during the summer of 44.  What made it to the continent and was used and how consistently has been debated before.  Widewing I believe posted a bunch of info on it in one of the old threads I linked to the last time this became a long discussion. 

I do recall him posting a couple of photos of Mustangs that had used 150 fuel and the indicator was the fuselage Data Block  like the one below.  This is off a restored, combat vet 78th FG Mustang and has the markings it would have worn at the time in early 45.  Note the 100/130 fuel noted.

On a 150 octane Mustang that would have been changed to reflect it's use.  I'll see if I can find a modified Data Block photo. No luck yet

[Guppy35]

OK found a couple, both from 45, roughly March-April.  Understand I'm not advocating either way.  It just wasn't quite so clear cut as to how much it was used, and my interest is in what's best for AH not what will make me go faster so I can catch someone

78th FG P51D.  Same fighter group as the one I posted above.  100/150 can be seen in the data block meaning it's been modified for that fuel.


4th FG CO's bird.  Hard to see in the scan from a book, but it also says 100/150 in the Data Block


370th FG 51D also from early 45