F4U-4 vs. other low ENY

[save]

A spit14 diving from typical ma altitude with a A8 is all the difference from the Spit16. They catch you .period.
Do not try to tell me you successfully dogifight a comparable Spit14/16 pilot in an A8 without lots of speed.
IF you do that without wingman Im all ear listening how you do that.
 
With a wingman, like we do in my squad, (and get frowned upon doing that) you can stretch it quite far though.

[GScholz]

Nonsense.  The Spit XIV is only comparatively fast above 23K.  At typical MA alts it's no faster than the VIII or XVI and handles worse.  

[bozon]

save,

Were you not the guy objecting to how the Spit XIV made life hard for your Fw190A-8?  If not, my apologies.

To me, being a Mossie VI fan, I just don't see the Spit XIV any different than the Bf109K-4, both of which require me to outfly the enemy because his fighter is simply superior to mine.  Bf109K-4s are actually worse because you rarely encounter only one as Luft fans seem to be a lot more into the themed squadron thing.

I was one of those worried about the Spit 14 being made free. First, I am happy to see that its population has dwindled down, as well as that of the Yak3s. Those two planes are a menace in the hands of a pilot who knows more than roll his lift vector and pull the stick. I overestimated the typical skill level of the AH player and it appears that the vast majority simply have no idea what these planes can do, or how to do it. So in terms of MA population they are tolerable - by themselves.

The real worry is the creeping increase of the typical plane performance level in the MA. Since Yak3 and Spit14 are not massively used, this has increased incrementally instead of spiking. It is the direction that worries me. Unperking the F4U-4 or the tempest will keep this trend up and in their case may even create a big spike.

I find the Spit14 more dangerous to my Mossie or P47Ds than 109K4s. The latter have to get real close in order to hit and it is easier to force a high deflection shot that they are likely to miss, or not take at all. The spits just nail me from 600-700 yards. Again, by themselves they are not a problem, but it is one more plane that can completely lock me into combat with no option to run away, dive away, or climb away. Then some slow turny-burny bird can show up and finish me off. I target Spit14s as top priority together with the LA7s.

It is fortunate that LA7s and Yak3s are Russian planes. Had they been American the arena would have been overrun by them.
F4U-4 is American.

[Lusche]

. It is the direction that worries me. Unperking the F4U-4 or the tempest will keep this trend up and in their case may even create a big spike.

But they will not get unperked, so no reason to get worried about that

[Karnak]

I would not have objected at all if HTC had gone the other direction.  If instead of unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV they had lightly perked the Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9, La-7, N1K2-J, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, Typhoon Mk Ib, Ta152H-1 and Yak-3.  However, the P-51D has to be on that list or it can't be done and the P-51D can't be perked for other reasons, thus the only solution for the Mk XIV was to unperk it.

[EagleDNY]

D. Acceleration at military: it's 3rd throughout the envelope to 300mph.

Forget acceleration at mil power - kick the WEP on and you feel every cubic inch of that 2,450 HP engine.  The -4 is a BEAST.     

[RotBaron]

Forget acceleration at mil power - kick the WEP on and you feel every cubic inch of that 2,450 HP engine.  The -4 is a BEAST.      

Actually according to the charts from HTC, the -4 is LAST among the 4 I mentioned using WEP between ~2k and ~10k, of course everyone should know (now) the La-7 performance drops off at 10k. So, at 10k, the F4U-4 takes its  3rd place position back (like military power) until 14k where it becomes parallel with the P-51D. When I say parallel, I mean fairly parallel, the biggest margin in mph between the P-51D and the F4U-4 once the -4 catches the -D is 20mph at the alt of 20k. I'm repeating myself now, but, the -4 does not take over in acceleration or almost any category between these four planes until 25k. At 25K the K-4 is now tied with it for acceleration with WEP. The odd thing here, and one of my reasons for this thread to begin, was the P-51D being faster than the -4 for the majority of the envelope. I originally thought that the P-51D was a heavier bird than it is, it's ~2-3klb's lighter and even with the -4's engine I guess it can't make up for it until the air gets thin. 

Summary: At first, for up to ~2k the -4 is the quickest in acceleration of the four mentioned (by a very small margin, all 4 are close together.) After 2k the La-7 and K-4 rapidly seperate themselves from the -4 and the P-51D. At 10k alt the La-7's acceleration falls off and it's now between the the remaining two, by ever decreasing margins up to 25k alt, where the -4 takes over through the rest of the ceiling.

The above is not to be construed as an argument for anything anymore, just the facts.

 

[Karnak]

Erm, the P-51D doesn't out accelerate the F4U-4 at any altitude.  I think you're looking at speed and calling it acceleration.

[SIK1]

See the chart:

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php

It appears in the 150-200mph range the 38-L is a close second in acceleration. Through the rest of the envelope it distances itself from the other US iron you mentioned. I'm sure there are other factors, but one aspect of drag is weight, thus while its better than the other corsairs, it's still a 12klb aircraft. However, part of the problem with this chart is the 500' baseline for comparison.

One of things that got my attention once was being hunted in the -4 down by a F4U-1 (I knew who was after me and knew the result if I tried to fight.) The overall topspeed was not enough to distance myself from him to get to land; he vulched me. I tried my best to get away but I was out of fuel. The increased horsepower drains the fuel tanks quicker. Also, I think I read somewhere that the main tank is smaller to begin with, but can't say that for sure.

If you're in a -4 being hunted by a birdcage the main thing is to first equalize E states. Once equal the -4 will out climb and out accelerate the -1 handily. Once the -4 gets the advantage there isn't a whole lot the birdcage can do against the -4. If you find yourself dying to birdcage corsairs in -4's I would recommend that you stay out of -4's and fly -1A's, birdcages, or even -1D's until you really understand how to fight in a corsair. Trying to learn in a -4 will only teach you bad habits that will get you killed when you come up against someone that knows what they are doing.

[RotBaron]

Erm, the P-51D doesn't out accelerate the F4U-4 at any altitude.  I think you're looking at speed and calling it acceleration.

Uhh, sorry, yes you are correct. I had acceleration in mind and was looking at the gonzoville charts, but then looked at speed from HTC, and confused the two.

My apologies, I just looked, yes at 1.5sec 150-200mph, 2.3secs 200-250mph, and 3.7secs longer respectively for the P-51D to accelerate to these speeds as a -4. "Top end," it gets even worse for the P-51.

Thank you for the correction. 

[RotBaron]

If you're in a -4 being hunted by a birdcage the main thing is to first equalize E states. Once equal the -4 will out climb and out accelerate the -1 handily. Once the -4 gets the advantage there isn't a whole lot the birdcage can do against the -4. If you find yourself dying to birdcage corsairs in -4's I would recommend that you stay out of -4's and fly -1A's, birdcages, or even -1D's until you really understand how to fight in a corsair. Trying to learn in a -4 will only teach you bad habits that will get you killed when you come up against someone that knows what they are doing.

I was on my last minute of fuel. It was Joker chasing me, end result would be the same as he is leagues above me.

[Saxman]

I was on my last minute of fuel. It was Joker chasing me, end result would be the same as he is leagues above me.

When I'm flying a -4 I'll usually take a single DT with me as well as the 100% internal. The beauty of the -4 is that due to its improved engine power over the early marks you don't always need to cut the tank loose until you're going to be REALLY heavily engaged. If you're in a position where you can use BnZ/E-fighting tactics (which in the -4 is not hard to set up) you can hold the tank as long as possible.

I just wish we could get the centerline hardpoint for the 1D/C and 4 so it's not flying unbalanced....

[xJUGGOx]

Curiosity question...with the P51D is WEP simulation of high blower or low blower? I'm looking at some numbers and was wondering AH numbers to RL numbers.

[Wmaker]

I would not have objected at all if HTC had gone the other direction.  If instead of unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV they had lightly perked the Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9, La-7, N1K2-J, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, Typhoon Mk Ib, Ta152H-1 and Yak-3.  However, the P-51D has to be on that list or it can't be done and the P-51D can't be perked for other reasons, thus the only solution for the Mk XIV was to unperk it.

I personally have long thought that the arena would overall be more interesting if this was done. Not for a while though. It would most likely be very very bad for the game, especially as the arena numbers are going down as they are. It is the new players that usually have hard time earning perks. It would just increase the gap between experienced and new players.

[save]

Instead of perking P51D/TA152 maybe force them fly with 100% fuel, and perk the rest of them   

P51D with 100 fuel is still fast but handles like a fat pig compared.
I know few Pony/152 pilots in MA that use 100% fuel.

I would not have objected at all if HTC had gone the other direction.  If instead of unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV they had lightly perked the Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9, La-7, N1K2-J, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, Typhoon Mk Ib, Ta152H-1 and Yak-3.  However, the P-51D has to be on that list or it can't be done and the P-51D can't be perked for other reasons, thus the only solution for the Mk XIV was to unperk it.