Bombsight calibration accuracy - involve the human

[bozon]

Currently in the MA we have the semi-auto calibration method. This calibration involves holding the "Y" key for a few seconds and nothing else. There are two issues with this method:
1. Player skill comes down being able to hold down a button and maintain speed after that. Even the latter can be nullified by holding "Y" again a few seconds before the drop.
2. Accuracy of the calibration is not a function of altitude, thus bombers can snipe individual structures with a single bomb from 25,000.

Let me expand a little about #2:
When the full manual calibration method is used, the player has to hold the crosshair on a spot in the terrain for a few seconds. The higher the plane, the less accurate this becomes. Thus, bombing accuracy becomes increasingly inaccurate with altitude due to offsets in the calibration (beyond bomb dispersion). Player skill comes in the ability to spot, track, and point accurately at a moving (relative to the plane) point on the ground. The semi-auto calib. method does not simulate this alt-dependent source of inaccuracy, which allows the laser-guided accuracy in bombing.

Suggestions:
1. Include in the semi-auto method a random inaccuracy in the calibration that increase linearly with altitude.
2. Allow players to switch between semi-auto and full manual calibration on the fly.

Reasoning:
The increased calibration inaccuracy with altitude will make bombers trade safety (altitude) for accuracy. So, if a bomber climbs to 25k to bomb a CV or a FH he should be prepared to spread the bombs a little to ensure a hit, or drop from 15k with a much higher accuracy. Alternatively, the player is given the option to manually calibrate and rely on their skill instead of the alt-dependent randomization in calibration. A skilled player may still be able to snipe a target from 25k with careful calibration. The ability to do either a full manual or semi-auto calibration allows a player to choose given the situation - if he is busy with the defensive guns he may opt for semi-auto which is much faster, or if safe, to opt for the potentially higher accuracy of a full manual.

Not the most urging issue in AH, but perhaps worth considering for a future patch.

[Karnak]

When this was done in the past players simply abandoned bombers and switched to heavy fighters, or used bombers as kamikaze tools.

[bozon]

When this was done in the past players simply abandoned bombers and switched to heavy fighters, or used bombers as kamikaze tools.

This was not done in the past. I was not requesting to force manual calibration.

[Karnak]

This was not done in the past. I was not requesting to force manual calibration.

You were requiring a reduction in accuracy.  That has the same effect.  If one puts an hour into a flight only to have their bombs miss when they were as calibrated as they could get, they won't waste their time going forward.  For those of us who can use the manual calibration it isn't a big deal (I missed the patch notes where it was changed and kept doing the manual calibration method for three years after it had been easier), but for those who never grokked it, it was the kiss of death for their use of bombers.

[Zimme83]

how do u go to manual bombsight? Havent tried that.
an option is to have a acceptable accuracy on the auto bomb sight but u can do even better if u can set it up properly, for ex that the auto bombsight doesnt compensate for the wind. In that case u hav good accuracy up to the wind layer and most bombers dont fly that hight. those hwo do go higher ar mostly dedicated bomber pilots.

[Zimme83]

It is the same concept as stall limiter, u can jump in a plane, fight with it and do a good job but there is a benefit to learn how to fly w/o the stall limiter.

[bozon]

You were requiring a reduction in accuracy.  That has the same effect. 

I am suggesting a reduction in calibration accuracy with altitude (in the semi-auto mode) because this is how it works when you manually calibrate and in real life. This would mean that if you bomb from 10,000 you can still laser bomb individual structure, from 15,000 you may need to drop just a little more poundage just to be sure and from 25,000 you'd better set up a carpet bomb pattern - OR do a full manual calibration if you think you can do better.

The semi-auto (current) method should still be accurate enough to drop hangars reliably from 10,000-15,000 AGL. It is the 25,000 buffs that single handedly shut down fields and/or disable ords and/or snipe a CV without missing a bomb that I aim for. At least make it a challenge to pull off such a feat, not just time investment. With the option for manual calibration skill can overcome the luck element.

If one puts an hour into a flight only to have their bombs miss when they were as calibrated as they could get, they won't waste their time going forward.

It takes them an hour if they climb to 25,000 feet and then expect to bomb with unrealistic (not even close by a mile - literally) pin-point accuracy from that altitude.

It is the same concept as stall limiter, u can jump in a plane, fight with it and do a good job but there is a benefit to learn how to fly w/o the stall limiter.

Exactly!

[bozon]

To the mods - this thread is obviously in the wrong subforum. It was supposed to be in the wishlist.

[Karnak]

Stall limiter is a different animal.  It doesn't, at a blow, render useless the entire flight.  Some aircraft, such as the P-51 and Fw190D-9, really aren't even impacted by the stall limiter as it has its effect in parts of the flight envelope where those should never be.

[Serenity]

Stall limiter is a different animal.  It doesn't, at a blow, render useless the entire flight.  Some aircraft, such as the P-51 and Fw190D-9, really aren't even impacted by the stall limiter as it has its effect in parts of the flight envelope where those should never be.

And SLIGHTLY reducing the auto-calibration accuracy won't cripple a bomber either.

[Lusche]

What means 'slightly' in this context?

[bozon]

What means 'slightly' in this context?

"Slightly" is measured in angles.

In the manual calibration method the bomb sight primitive computer measures the change in view angle (parallax) to a fixed point on the ground over a given time interval. The angular velocity is multiplied by the altitude to get the actual ground speed (I am simplifying for the ideal case). To measure the change in angle, a human needs to point the instrument (crosshair) to the same point during these two times, but has a finite angular accuracy. Thus, the error in measured angle is multiplied by the altitude and carried over to the ground speed measurement - double the alt, double the inaccuracy of the calibration.

Currently (as I understand it!), the semi-auto calibration has some random error on the speed irrespective of the altitude. Holding "Y" longer, averages the speed over a longer time and reduce the random error, as it should - up to a limit. The 5 seconds required now is way below the limit and manual calibration takes much longer in practice in order to achieve this accuracy. I understand why HTC made this time so short (one person doing all the jobs on the plane), but the side effect is that it was made VERY accurate and independent of alt.

Now for the practical game - "Slightly" should be defined by what should be the highest speed and alt that still yield pin-point accuracy. Say, half (or 2/3, or 90%, whatever if it needs to be made more accurate for gameplay) the times the bomb will fall within the blast radius of a 500 lbs (defined by a normal 2D distribution). For example, 300 mph at 10,000, which is still incredible. So, if you drop the bomb from 20,000, half the times the bombs will fall within a circle twice as large. In practice it is much easier to tweak since you only need to decide on some angular accuracy limit in the semi-auto calibration via a bit of experimenting in the limiting conditions (300 mph, 10k in the is example) and the rest follows by itself.

The main point here is that accuracy will deteriorate with altitude. Just make sure that from low "enough" and typical bomber speeds it still hits hangars reliably. From higher altitude it will not be completely off! accuracy drops only linearly with alt. It will mean that when dropping from 20k, some spread of the bombs is desirable and that you should not expect to drop the exact amount of lbs needed to destroy the hangar calculated to the last ounce. One 500lbs dropped from 20k per ammo bunker should not be standard MO.

Manual calibration should always be an option for the veterans if they think they can improve on the accuracy when it makes a difference (i.e. from very high/fast). Just allow them to choose the method while in the air, not preflight.

[Zimme83]

What means 'slightly' in this context?

As i said, no wind correction on auto calibration would give an accurate bomb sight up to the wind layer, thats good for most players. Its also possible to hit lager targets like city and strats with aceptable accuracy from higher alt. But if u want to drop on hangars and ords from 30k u need the manual bombsight.

[bustr]

Almost reads like you are asking Hitech to factor in a dispersion cone that gets worse the higher you drop the bombs from. Thus requiring more bombs the higher you are flying to hit a single object. Sounds like the actual dispersion problems they had in WW2. And why it took so many bombers to hit one target.

The consequence would be players using jabo because of the diminishing returns on their investment. I suspect the only reason many players bother to bomb is the JDAM accuracy of their bombs at all alts. But, at least CV might last longer.

I have always wondered why some amount of dispersion to simulate the reality of dropped bombs has not been added by now. Especially since you can talk a bomber on target well enough to pinpoint GV from alt.

[SmokinLoon]

Since early on in my days in AH (joined AH in Jan of '08), I've thought that level bombing was too easy.  We've heard directly from HTC as to why auto calibration is used and not manual (make it too difficult and ALL bombers will be hanger queens).  While I dont propose HTC use the manual calibration in the MA, I would like to see the "spread" be a bit larger.

I too think there should be a larger variable the higher the bombers are. I agree that it is just too easy to bomb away at 25k+ and drop targets the size of a house with a single bomb (or three!).

I vote for HTC to incorporate a larger spread via the higher a bomber is.