Jug Instructions

[Scca]

The Jug handly out turns the 190A8.

I agree..

Perhaps your cutting throttle and dropping flaps to much.

Could also be combat trim.  I know I have to turn off combat trim or all sorts of bad things happen once flaps are deployed..

[Randy1]

Had a chance to watch Muzzy in action with the P-47 the other night.  This guy is no slouch in the 47.   He indeed killed a pesky 190A8 after I blew my throttle control and over shoot the 190.

The only mistake I saw was getting pulled under a high, red horde while engaged with another red near the deck.  Now who hasn't done that.

Scca My point on the A8 is a good stick will take advantage of the long wep and keep pulling the nose up on a 47.  Add to that long turn fighting in MA with a P-47 is asking for a pick.  I know, I have killed many of them that way.

[FLS]

... I blew my throttle control and over shot the 190.

Reducing throttle doesn't do much by itself to slow you down unless you're climbing. Increasing drag by increasing lift, as in a barrel roll, along with power off is more effective.

[Scca]

Had a chance to watch Muzzy in action with the P-47 the other night.  This guy is no slouch in the 47.   He indeed killed a pesky 190A8 after I blew my throttle control and over shoot the 190.

The only mistake I saw was getting pulled under a high, red horde while engaged with another red near the deck.  Now who hasn't done that.

Scca My point on the A8 is a good stick will take advantage of the long wep and keep pulling the nose up on a 47.  Add to that long turn fighting in MA with a P-47 is asking for a pick.  I know, I have killed many of them that way.

Ah, see, now your getting into more than the original statement.  My only comment was that any 47 should easily out turn a 190A8 (and D9 for that matter) (even in real life)

Other than a few exceptional sticks, most A8's I encounter are dead meat (pardon the pun), regardless of their starting at an advantage or not.  There are a few that can make them do magical stuff, but unless I know a reasonably good stick is in the area, I don't worry too much about an A8.

[Puma44]

On very basic item that is missing in this discussion is lift vector and how to use it.  This is one of the fundamentals of effective BFM/ACM employment.  If one doesn't have a basic understanding of it there is a huge part missing in the fighter pilot's bag of tricks.  The guys and gals out in the real world understand it and use it as one of the basics  for maneuvering against an opponent.

[Muzzy]

Had a chance to watch Muzzy in action with the P-47 the other night.  This guy is no slouch in the 47.   He indeed killed a pesky 190A8 after I blew my throttle control and over shoot the 190.

The only mistake I saw was getting pulled under a high, red horde while engaged with another red near the deck.  Now who hasn't done that.

Scca My point on the A8 is a good stick will take advantage of the long wep and keep pulling the nose up on a 47.  Add to that long turn fighting in MA with a P-47 is asking for a pick.  I know, I have killed many of them that way.

You're too kind sir. 

With regards to the A8 incident, I should add that I was facing a pretty good stick in a 1v1 situation. Having flown the A8 before I was fairly aware of its characteristics, which is why I was surprised that he was able to hold a sustained turn for that long.

[FLS]

On very basic item that is missing in this discussion is lift vector and how to use it.  This is one of the fundamentals of effective BFM/ACM employment.  If one doesn't have a basic understanding of it there is a huge part missing in the fighter pilot's bag of tricks.  The guys and gals out in the real world understand it and use it as one of the basics  for maneuvering against an opponent.

I'm sure we'd all like to hear more about it Puma.

[Puma44]

I'm sure we'd all like to hear more about it Puma.

Start by doing some research and reading, ya know, the Google thing.   .  The typical BRD discussion is about advanced maneuvering before understanding the basics.  For players new to BFM/ACM it's like teaching someone to run before they learn to crawl and then walk.

Surely, you understand lift vector and know how to apply it.

[FLS]

Start by doing some research and reading, ya know, the Google thing.   .  The typical BRD discussion is about advanced maneuvering before understanding the basics.  For players new to BFM/ACM it's like teaching someone to run before they learn to crawl and then walk.

Surely, you understand lift vector and know how to apply it.

I wasn't asking just for myself. I'm sure there's a lot of interest in your knowledge and experience. I learn a lot from other people and there's always more to learn. When people ask questions in Help and Training they're usually looking for tips and explanations. If they're interested in reading and can learn on their own they're usually doing that already.
If you're not sure where to start you might explain how plane of maneuver affects establishing pursuit curves.

I always recommend learning the basics first when someone wants to learn a particular aircraft and it's obvious that what they really need to do is learn the basics of flight including turning, and the basics of ACM/BFM, i.e. pursuit curves, the energy egg, and the turn circle.

It's like an apple drops on Newton and he cuts it open, doesn't see anything that makes it fall and never bothers with discovering gravity.   

[Scca]

You're too kind sir. 

With regards to the A8 incident, I should add that I was facing a pretty good stick in a 1v1 situation. Having flown the A8 before I was fairly aware of its characteristics, which is why I was surprised that he was able to hold a sustained turn for that long.

Kept fast, the A8 is a fun ride. They turn surprisingly well when really fast. When slow, the A8 has a nasty rt wing departure that is hard to recover from near the deck. It happens quick, really quick.

[Dragon Tamer]

Man! There was a discussion on jugs and no one invited me?! And I missed the good part as well!!! 

I've noticed that when chasing 190s at high speed, jugs tend to have a hard time turning with them (different G loading on the pilot?). I will be pulling in a lag pursuit and still be blacking out from too many Gs and they will just keep getting tighter and tighter. 

My favorite jug is the D-25. It's performance is pretty close to the D-11 but it's visibility is on a whole different level. It can carry a decent ord load if need be (though I rarely take rockets anywhere due to the impeded roll rate when the tubes are still on). And it has the distinction of being the most under used jugs, which sets it apart as a true jug drivers plane. 

My favorite planes to pick on are spitfires since they usually seem to be the only ones willing to turn fight, along with the occasional Yak. Though these planes (especially spits) usually hunt in packs which makes them even more of a challenge to beat.

The planes I try to avoid are corsairs and hellcats. Both seem to do everything better than the jug. The hogs... they just do things... it's like alien technology. 

And if you're flying the jug remember, always hunt the brewsters withe extreme prejudice. 

[Muzzy]

Why the D25 over the D40?

[caldera]

Man! There was a discussion on jugs and no one invited me?! And I missed the good part as well!!! 

I've noticed that when chasing 190s at high speed, jugs tend to have a hard time turning with them (different G loading on the pilot?). I will be pulling in a lag pursuit and still be blacking out from too many Gs and they will just keep getting tighter and tighter. 

My favorite jug is the D-25. It's performance is pretty close to the D-11 but it's visibility is on a whole different level. It can carry a decent ord load if need be (though I rarely take rockets anywhere due to the impeded roll rate when the tubes are still on). And it has the distinction of being the most under used jugs, which sets it apart as a true jug drivers plane. 

My favorite planes to pick on are spitfires since they usually seem to be the only ones willing to turn fight, along with the occasional Yak. Though these planes (especially spits) usually hunt in packs which makes them even more of a challenge to beat.

The planes I try to avoid are corsairs and hellcats. Both seem to do everything better than the jug. The hogs... they just do things... it's like alien technology. 

And if you're flying the jug remember, always hunt the brewsters withe extreme prejudice. 

You got that right:

[Oldman731]

Why the D25 over the D40?

More of a challenge, I imagine.

Years ago someone wrote here that the D25 had the best ordnance load-out of all the 47s.  Never checked to see if it was true then, or if it is true now, but I remember reading that.

- oldman

[bozon]

Why the D25 over the D40?

Prettier skins.