Author Topic: speak out  (Read 12782 times)

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: speak out
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2015, 03:48:37 PM »
Just a straw man argument.
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Offline ink

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Re: speak out
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2015, 04:19:20 PM »
"Of all the quadrupeds that have lived upon the earth, probably no other species has ever marshaled such innumerable hosts as those of the American bison. It would have been as easy to count or to estimate the number of leaves in a forest as to calculate the number of buffaloes living at any given time during the history of the species previous to 1870."


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17748/17748-h/17748-h.htm




What has that to do with the fact that the indians (just as many other indegenious people over the world) did have an environmentally impact and even caused the exctinction of species?




good question

for one I am not so sure I believe that....

as history and actual evidence says otherwise.....


is it possible that a non "white" native race did what some try to say....I guess it is possible....


after reading this book....I change my opinion...ALL people suck....

“Within the circular fence ... lay, tossed in every conceivable position, over two hundred dead buffalo. [The exact number was 240.] From old bulls to calves of three months’ old, animals of every age were huddled together in all the forced attitudes of violent death. Some lay on their backs, with eyes starting from their heads and tongue thrust out through clotted gore. Others were impaled on the horns of the old and strong bulls. Others again, which had been tossed, were lying with broken backs, two and three deep. One little calf hung suspended on the horns of a bull which had impaled it in the wild race round and round the pound. The Indians looked upon the dreadful and sickening [Pg 480]sight with evident delight, and told how such and such a bull or cow had exhibited feats of wonderful strength in the death-struggle. The flesh of many of the cows had been taken from them, and was drying in the sun on stages near the tents. It is needless to say that the odor was overpowering, and millions of large blue flesh-flies, humming and buzzing over the putrefying bodies, was not the least disgusting part of the spectacle.”



"But apparently no such thoughts ever entered their minds, so far as they themselves were concerned. They looked with jealous eyes upon the white hunter, and considered him as much of a robber as if they had a brand on every buffalo. It has been claimed by some authors that the Indians killed with more judgment and more care for the future than did the white man, but I fail to find any evidence that such was ever the fact. They all killed wastefully, wantonly, and always about five times as many head as were really necessary for food. It was always the same old story, whenever a gang of Indians needed meat a whole herd was slaughtered, the choicest portions of the finest animals were taken, and about 75 per cent of the whole left to putrefy and fatten the wolves. And now, as we read of the appalling slaughter, one can scarcely repress the feeling of grim satisfaction that arises when we also read that many of the ex-slaughterers are almost starving for the [Pg 481]millions of pounds of fat and juicy buffalo meat they wasted a few years ago. Verily, the buffalo is in a great measure avenged already."






yup I was wrong....

Indians were just as dickish as whites....not quite to the extreme we took it....


but I do accept I was wrong about how they lived life!!!


well I knew they were savage to each other and they had that part of them, but I did believe they treated animals better then what they actually did.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 04:26:58 PM by ink »

Offline bustr

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Re: speak out
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2015, 04:22:38 PM »
Civilizations on our planet progressed beyond securing food visa hunting by focusing on growing some seminal grain type as the core for sustaining it's population. Or maintaining large herds of ungulates for protein and milk products. Our American Indians relied too heavily on hunting. To live on a diet primarily of protein products as many Indian tribes did, ends up depleting the surrounding wild life. A protein based survival strategy requires killing something to eat almost every day while killing and preserving additional amounts of protein for the future. Coastal tribes were able to time their year's food supply around fish and water mammal migrations but, gave up being migratory themselves, and at the mercy of bad seasons and years. 

By the time of Louis and Clark's expedition, the existing migratory Indian populations on the North American continent were reaching a tipping point in numbers versus being able to support those numbers with a hunting protein survival strategy. Where ever tribes claimed territory, they hunted that area out quickly to support their numbers. Between none stop war with other tribes and hunting protein as their survival strategy, they had a non sustainable way of life. Introduction of the horse sped this up.

Wiping out the buffalo herds at the end of the second half of the 19th century was all it really took to tip the larger American Indian populations over the edge in terms of food supply. They never developed beyond reliance on native prey populations down to relying almost solely on the bison after hunting out everything else. The Asian steppe nomads who in many ways were like our Indians, kept herds of animals to supply their protein needs and almost conquered the known world. But, they at least had the horse and metal technology much longer than the American Indians who came too late to that game.

The bison was wiped out to speed up the decline of the plains Indians while market hunting eventually had to be curtailed and regulated. Our current hunting and fishing regulation is a direct result of the excesses of market hunting. Unlike our Indian tribes tied to protein, we regulate what, how much, and when we can harvest by seasons. Specifically to not wipe out the available animals like the Indians were forced to do by their predominantly protein survival strategy.

Finger pointing over this is idiotic. Many of you would not be taking part in this post if all of those things had not happened. So if you are feeling guilty over what happened, go out and kiss a tree. Trying to redirect that by taking it out on anyone who doesn't agree with you is just as idiotic as finger pointing. 
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: speak out
« Reply #78 on: June 18, 2015, 05:01:13 PM »
Ink, I'm impressed. You read and learned something!  :aok
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Offline mbailey

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Re: speak out
« Reply #79 on: June 18, 2015, 06:34:00 PM »
I'mma just leave these facts here:

http://conservationmagazine.org/2014/01/can-trophy-hunting-reconciled-conservation/
http://www.ducks.org/hunting/du-and-hunting/hunters-do-more-for-wildlife
http://dailyreckoning.com/right-to-hunt-vs-animal-rights/
http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HuntingIsConservation/25ReasonsWhyHuntingIsConservation.aspx

 :rofl

Great post Skyyr, and all verificiable facts.   :aok   The Pittman act is one of the best things that ever happened in the world of wildlife conservation. At least us hunters know the truth

I literally had a discussion once with a friends girlfriend that was completely against hunting......I let her have her say right up till her order arrived and she asked me to pass the ketchup for her burger.   
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: speak out
« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2015, 07:34:22 PM »
Great post Skyyr, and all verificiable facts.   :aok   The Pittman act is one of the best things that ever happened in the world of wildlife conservation. At least us hunters know the truth

I literally had a discussion once with a friends girlfriend that was completely against hunting......I let her have her say right up till her order arrived and she asked me to pass the ketchup for her burger.

Spend a day at Chic fil A that is located on a college campus. The amount of chicken those people go through is asinine. Eat the damn chicken and be happy it was that easy to get it.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: speak out
« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2015, 07:36:29 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:03:53 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Halo46

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Re: speak out
« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2015, 07:41:59 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:04:04 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: speak out
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2015, 08:54:27 PM »
This post delivers....  thanks!  I needed a laugh!
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Offline ink

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Re: speak out
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2015, 11:52:30 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:04:16 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline zack1234

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Re: speak out
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2015, 01:55:22 AM »
Ink, I'm impressed. You read and learned something!  :aok


Ink feels all warm inside now.

I dont have enough coin to have a point of view or for anyone to take any notice of it.

I was waching youtube vids about lizard people, just reinforces the fact people need to be led.

Apparently Boxcar Willie is a lizard man as well.

Ink admit i owned you in a fist fight.



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Offline saggs

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Re: speak out
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2015, 10:22:19 PM »
For all those decrying sport hunting, saying how evil and twisted it is, and how we should be protecting rather then killing wildlife.

I ask an honest question...

How much money have you donated to wildlife and habitat conservation?



And while you think about your answer, google the following terms:

Pittman-Robertson Act
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ducks Unlimited
Whitetails Unlimited

Those are all American entities.  But the same goes for Africa, ask yourself where all the funding for the many African National Parks and Wildlife Preserves comes from, as well as funding for wardens and anti-poaching efforts.

Even if hunters didn't fund conservation (but I'm very glad they do) I still would not be opposed to hunting.  Humans are a part of the earths ecosystem, we are the apex predator, why should we pretend like we are some alien visitors to this planet who are only allowed to observe but not interfere?

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: speak out
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2015, 02:00:36 AM »
I once had black ants in a house I'd just moved into.  The exterminator came, found where they were nesting under the door sill and killed them.  Local ant genocide.  No more ants. 

Or are we only counting mammals?

<--- Looks at self, worried.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 02:02:21 AM by BaldEagl »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: speak out
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2015, 09:33:21 AM »
Yes, anti-hunting people are such speciesists...
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: speak out
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2015, 11:16:39 AM »
How about bees and wasps? I have yellow jacket nest on the house and they are going to all die
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