Author Topic: Spins  (Read 3136 times)

Offline Busher

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Spins
« on: September 10, 2022, 11:49:15 AM »
A discussion on spin recovery training and technique gets locked?
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Spins
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2022, 11:51:27 AM »
A discussion on spin recovery training and technique gets locked?

I was confused as well until I realized that the newly created account is using a name that is a thinly veiled attack on a forum member.

:rolleyes:

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Offline bj229r

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Re: Spins
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2022, 11:51:55 AM »
I was wondering, then I looked more closely at the poster name
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Offline Rocco

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Re: Spins
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2022, 12:58:24 PM »
It is a topic worth discussing. I recently went through a flight review with a CFI to regain my currency and it blew me away that they asked if I was ok with doing spin recovery, instead of just doing it. I asked why it was only an option and found out it is no longer a Transport Canada requirement. The flight school still teaches it when they can but it's not an official part of the training.

In my early 20's while building time I did an aerobatics course and became certified. I learned more about handling an aircraft in that ~10hr course (and all the solo I did after) than I did in my 55hrs to get my private. I gained a lot of confidence knowing that I could make the aircraft do what I want it to do. I even went as far as to start developing an upset recovery training course for my flight school. I would recommend every pilot takes at least an intro, and I do think it should be a requirement.

As for spin recovery, I found the instructor was initiating recovery too early on her demos. It resulted in a very nose down, almost vertical attitude and was well within the yellow arc during the pull out of the dive. I prefer to let it develop just a second longer and when the spin breaks you're only in a roughly 40deg nose down attitude and nowhere near the yellow arc on the pull up. This is treating it as an emergency procedure, in aerobatics you want to recover 90deg down line. I haven't compared the numbers as to which results in less altitude loss but I imagine a vertical dive to +140kts is going to eat up more alt vs a ~40deg dive to ~110kts.
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Offline TyFoo

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Re: Spins
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2022, 06:07:22 PM »
Rich Stowell is a great resource for Spin Awareness and training. He has Youtube videos and books.

Offline Busher

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Re: Spins
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2022, 06:10:34 PM »
I learned to fly in 1963 in Canada. At that time with the likes of Aeroncas, Cubs, etc, spin recovery training was just part of the curriculum. I have no idea when Transport Canada eliminated that training and reverted to "insipient spin" recovery.... maybe about the same time the spin characteristics of more modern light aircraft became so Gawd-awful.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Spins
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2022, 06:41:17 PM »
I remember reading a book about WWI and how the early pilots were terrified of a spin.
They didn't really understand the causes and had no idea how to get out of it.  It was essentially a random occurrence that would be fatal.
It was like an early version of the sound barrier.  They felt it was like a fundamental limit of aerodynamics that if it occurred, you were helpless; you were dead.

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Offline Rocco

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Re: Spins
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2022, 07:10:12 PM »
I learned to fly in 1963 in Canada. At that time with the likes of Aeroncas, Cubs, etc, spin recovery training was just part of the curriculum. I have no idea when Transport Canada eliminated that training and reverted to "insipient spin" recovery.... maybe about the same time the spin characteristics of more modern light aircraft became so Gawd-awful.

I did my flight training in the early 2000s and it was still part of the training then, so must have been in the past 15 yrs. Private I think was just recovery but commercial was entry and recovery.
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Offline Busher

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Re: Spins
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2022, 07:17:52 PM »
I did my flight training in the early 2000s and it was still part of the training then, so must have been in the past 15 yrs. Private I think was just recovery but commercial was entry and recovery.

How many turns? They use something useful like a Citabria?
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Spins
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2022, 07:32:53 PM »
Please pardon my exposition of a certain other sim but if you ever find yourself flying an F-14 after bombing a fictional country as did Tom Cruise here's how to recover from a flat spin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uFfJOwb_g
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Online nopoop

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Re: Spins
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2022, 08:56:32 PM »
In a cessna 150 it was 2 turns. Early 70's. Taught both entry and exit. Lol and hammer heads..
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Offline Rocco

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Re: Spins
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2022, 09:31:42 PM »
It wasn't even 1 turn in a 172 for the test, just the incipient and recover. Did 5-6 in a 150 aerobat. Even did inverted once, that was disorienting.lol

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Offline Rocco

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Re: Spins
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2022, 09:34:01 PM »
172s are so stable that it was a challenge to get more than 2-3 turns before it just recovered on its own.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Spins
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2022, 02:54:05 AM »
Doing spins was standard for flight school in the late 1970's for me, too, in Cessna 152's.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Spins
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2022, 06:40:28 AM »
Doing spins was standard for flight school in the late 1970's for me, too, in Cessna 152's.

Me, as well. Spins and stalls.