Spins

[Toad]

In USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training we spun the T-37 every which way but loose. 

My Tweet IP had an Iranian student that wouldn't do spin recoveries. Period. Sat on his hands so to speak. Got to the point where it was the last chance for romance. IP told him he'd demo one and then Abdul HAD to enter and recover from just ONE spin or he was going home. Getting sent home without wings was not a good thing in the days of the Shah.

So, demo. Next Abdul puts her in the spin entry correctly but holds full aft stick forever while yelling essentially  this is the day we meet Allah. IP keeps telling him to initiate recovery, IP keeps trying to push stick forward, yelling continues with stick full aft. IP unable to get stick forward at all due to leverage situation with stick touching bellybutton.

Passing 10,000, IP begins slamming his fist into Abdul's O2 mask. Third hit, Abdul takes hands off stick to protect face and IP recovers. Threatens to kill Abdul if he touches the stick again. Aircraft RTB Willie, Abdul RTB Iran.

[Volron]

In USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training we spun the T-37 every which way but loose.  Every possible configuration was taught for spin recovery, clean, full landing configuration, single engine in each of those, and into the simulated dead engine & away from it.  Became almost routine and boring after awhile, sort of (except, we didn’t have the dramatic music playing).

This makes me curious: From what you know, how did the Phantom handle a spin?  Did you put one into a spin?


As heavy as she is, I'm quite curious if she handled a spin well, poorly, etc.   

[Oldman731]

Apply opposite rudder to stop the rotation of the spin and then apply elevator to reduce angle of attack. Do Not use ailerons.

Heh.  You haven't done it in the Spit I.  So far as I can tell - and I have extensive experience! - there is no recovery from the Spit I's inverted spin.

- oldman

[Puma44]

My Tweet IP had an Iranian student that wouldn't do spin recoveries. Period. Sat on his hands so to speak. Got to the point where it was the last chance for romance. IP told him he'd demo one and then Abdul HAD to enter and recover from just ONE spin or he was going home. Getting sent home without wings was not a good thing in the days of the Shah.

So, demo. Next Abdul puts her in the spin entry correctly but holds full aft stick forever while yelling essentially  this is the day we meet Allah. IP keeps telling him to initiate recovery, IP keeps trying to push stick forward, yelling continues with stick full aft. IP unable to get stick forward at all due to leverage situation with stick touching bellybutton.

Passing 10,000, IP begins slamming his fist into Abdul's O2 mask. Third hit, Abdul takes hands off stick to protect face and IP recovers. Threatens to kill Abdul if he touches the stick again. Aircraft RTB Willie, Abdul RTB Iran.

WOW!!!

Interesting that a Saudi Arabian student in our Tweet flight had issues with a compass, it turned out.  He and his IP walked in from flying one day.  The IP had completely lost it and was screaming at the top of his voice at the back of the stud’s head.  While out in their assigned tube (airspace sectors),  the IP commanded a turn to a cardinal compass heading and the guy turns the wrong direction to a different point on the compass and stops.  Long story short, this stud had no idea what a compass was, nor how to use it.  The IP spent along time quizzing him on compass headings.  It wasn’t in this guy’s tool bag of skills.

Then there was the Iranian student, who must have been asleep during life support class when they explained the ejection seat, parachute, how to use both, and the contingencies for malfunctions.  A rather long story but, he hadn’t a clue what the metal “D” shaped thing on the front of his parachute harness was used for.   

A friend from F-106 days, had been a T-38 IP prior.  One day while flying with a Saudi stud in the traffic pattern, this guy tigered the final turn a bit too much and was rapidly approaching a stall.  My IP buddy screamed for him to unload and go full afterburners. The stud threw his hands up in the air and proclaimed “Allah with take care of us”, which prompted my friend to grab the stick, slam the throttles to the full afterburner stops, and recover from the base to final turn stall they were entering.  He flew around the pattern for a more conventional approach and landing from the back seat.  The debrief was very short and direct.  My buddy then went to his flight commander, explained what happened, and went home for the day.  On the way home, he stopped at the class VI store, bought a case of beer, and commenced to recover from the day.

[Puma44]

This makes me curious: From what you know, how did the Phantom handle a spin?  Did you put one into a spin?


As heavy as she is, I'm quite curious if she handled a spin well, poorly, etc.   

Basically, spins were a prohibited intentional maneuver.  There was no tactical advantage to doing them and the descent rate was incredible, as indicated on the film below.  If still in a spin or out of control condition going through 10,000’ above ground level occurred, procedure was to eject without delay.  The ground was seconds away.  The spin video starts about the 24 minute point and shows a flat spin about 26 minutes.  Enough spins were done in the T-37 to last a lifetime.

[Shuffler]

Apply opposite rudder to stop the rotation of the spin and then apply elevator to reduce angle of attack. Do Not use ailerons.

Flat spin......... elevator has no authority nor does the rudder.

[bj229r]

My big brother was an ATC at Ft Rucker in the early 70's, he'd tell me about those guys (probably Iranian) they fire it up.."me go now"... gone

[Rocco]

*edit : removed a bunch cause I was wrong*

 Heard stories of guys telling their copilot to unbuckle and press against the front canopy to try to get the cg forward and get the nose down. Lol

Procedure I was always taught is power idle (gyro effects in a prop plane make spins worse), ailerons neutral, nose down (or up if inverted), opposite rudder. Hold those inputs until rotation stops then neutralize rudder, roll wings level, and ease out of the dive.

[Puma44]

Out of control recovery for the F-4 was to neutralize all controls, engines to idle, and brace for Mr Toad’s wild ride as it worked itself out of the gyrations it got into.  Eventually, it would come to relatively stable flight condition where the pilot could again use the controls and engines, assuming the recovery happens above 10,000’ above ground level.

[Busher]

Out of control recovery for the F-4 was to neutralize all controls, engines to idle, and brace for Mr Toad’s wild ride as it worked itself out of the gyrations it got into.  Eventually, it would come to relatively stable flight condition where the pilot could again use the controls and engines, assuming the recovery happens above 10,000’ above ground level.

Yuck. Sounds frighteningly like an airbus.

[Toad]

The stud threw his hands up in the air and proclaimed “Allah with take care of us”,

This was not a common response but it there are multiple stories that include something similar around that timeframe.

I never found that procedure in any of my Dash-1s.

[-gg-]

My Tweet IP had an Iranian student that wouldn't do spin recoveries. Period. Sat on his hands so to speak. Got to the point where it was the last chance for romance. IP told him he'd demo one and then Abdul HAD to enter and recover from just ONE spin or he was going home. Getting sent home without wings was not a good thing in the days of the Shah.

So, demo. Next Abdul puts her in the spin entry correctly but holds full aft stick forever while yelling essentially  this is the day we meet Allah. IP keeps telling him to initiate recovery, IP keeps trying to push stick forward, yelling continues with stick full aft. IP unable to get stick forward at all due to leverage situation with stick touching bellybutton.

Passing 10,000, IP begins slamming his fist into Abdul's O2 mask. Third hit, Abdul takes hands off stick to protect face and IP recovers. Threatens to kill Abdul if he touches the stick again. Aircraft RTB Willie, Abdul RTB Iran.

LOL!

[AKIron]

In an F-14 sim I can recover both engines out given enough altitude. Engines out and a flat spin, Goose is cooked.

[Puma44]

Yuck. Sounds frighteningly like an airbus.

Perhaps but, all an airbus can drop on anyone, is blue water.

[AKIron]

Perhaps but, all an airbus can drop on anyone, is blue water.

And human bodies per Air France Flight 447.