Author Topic: Rush has finally gone too far  (Read 2416 times)

Offline Tumor

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2002, 02:09:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
The guy sits in a chair and talks for thre hours a day.

First off: More power to him

Second off:  Who cares
====
Sure, everyone should have access to free medical care but there will always be a market for higher quality for those who can afford it.  Dont like it?  Get an education then go get a job that pays well.

Y


..hmmm...did you bust your butt through college while on welfare or did mom and pop pay for college?  That attitude just sucks yeager.  Not everyone has the opportunity to get that education early on.  It's easy to get all "better than thou" and spout off.  Just an example of another elitist who doesn't give a crap about anyone but his or her self.  How nice.
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Offline mrfish

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2002, 02:31:40 AM »
lol - this reminds me of my days in highschool as a pizza deliverer.

we were the only place that would deliver to the ghetto and tenements. i took the job because it paid more even though there were murders there every few weeks.

the 1st and 15th were our biggest nights by far. it didnt take long to find out why.

i always wondered how someone on public assistance could blow $20 for a pizza??? i mean if you are down to that you oughtta be buying rice and potatos or something.

i remember a friend of mine on assistance showing me her nail job once....her and her two kids lived in temporary hotels.

its a damn shame.

Offline easymo

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2002, 03:46:24 AM »
"and walking in to find dozens of rampaging little bastards running around "with a tickle in thier throat". .."

  Tumor, I have to say thats over the top.  I have never known a young mother to not over react to a sick child.  The only thing that might stop this behavior is education. And if they had an education they would not need welfare in the first place.  I just feel grateful for the ones that recognize the limitations of there knowledge.  And take the child to the doctors. It is the ones that assume that nothing is wrong, and the child dies, that get my jaw tight.

Offline streakeagle

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2002, 10:30:06 AM »
Okay, let's assume that everyone agrees it is wrong to have the quality of goods and services determined by how much money you have. Heath care definitely falls under the category of services, so what is the alternative to health care based on the patient's (customer's) financial resources?

Unless the goverment taxes the hell out of us, any "free" health care program will still have very limited resources when it comes to major operations requiring specialists, especially organ transplants depending on very limited organ donor supplies. So, who gets the priority? First come, first serve? Who decides who lives and dies? The government or some goverment appointed doctor? How many people are going to be willing to become doctors once it becomes a goverment run profession with relatively low pay compared to the sacrifices required to become a doctor (like the military)? What will be the quality of these doctors?

If you want the best health care in the world, you don't go to a country where the health care is provided to everyone for free. You come here where the doctors are rewarded financially for their exceptional skills.

While Rush's choice of words makes it sound harsh and evil, I still think the greed-driven capitalist framework our country was founded on is the best system for distributing limited resources such as good health care. Good health care is not a right, it is a luxury. The fact that a child of some poor family with no health care coverage will die because they cannot afford surgery while some rich fat old man gets his third heart bypass surgery is an inherent part of the system we live in.

So the best solution is to your own health care problems is to find a way to be financially successful, which is usually good for the ecomomy as well as you (basic capitalist theory :)). If you cannot do this for some reason (lazy? lack of talents? ), feel free to become a citizen of one of the many countries that offers "free" health care.

The idea of government here is that it protects your right to pursue happiness, not to guarantee or protect your happiness. It is your responsibility as an individual to make the decisions and take the actions necessary to be happy.


P.S. I hope that this country didn't just waste over 40 years of defense money winning the Cold War only to decide that it is better to be red than dead. I would rather die because I can't afford health care than give up the American way.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2002, 10:38:30 AM by streakeagle »
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Offline Maniac

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2002, 10:45:39 AM »
OMG!

Streak are you trolling?

Quote
Heath care definitely falls under the category of services, so what is the alternative to health care based on the patient's (customer's)


Customers? toejam this world is getting colder and colder, soon we dont have _ANY_ compassion left... customers??? try human beings in need of help.

Quote
You come here where the doctors are rewarded financially for their exceptional skills.


Are you saying that there are simply no doctors with exceptional skills in an country with free medical care? :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: January 27, 2002, 10:57:35 AM by Maniac »
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Offline capt. apathy

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2002, 10:49:18 AM »
Quote
If you want the best health care in the world, you don't go to a country where the health care is provided to everyone for free. You come here where the doctors are rewarded financially for their exceptional skills.


i'm not saying that private DR's should be outlawed or even that you shouldn't be able to pay for a more luxerious hospital.

but necisary  healthcare should be provided to everyone regardless of income. if you can afford a private room or your personal physician(instead of clinics) then great.

i just don't think anybody should have to try to figure out how to fit healthcare into the budget and realize they just can't afford it.

btw just incase you're not rich enough to send your kids to private school.  those kids who's parents can't afford to take them to the Dr. are going to bring that disease with them when they go to school with your kids
and that poor minimum wage adult who has no health care or money for medicine and is too poor to take the day off when he's sick probable made your hamberger at lunch

Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2002, 11:11:16 AM »
I've heard rumors of the medical insurance system in the US that you may get sick once or twice but then you lose your benefits..

Is that true? So if you get an accident or chronic illness after using your insurance earlier you have to pay the huge sums from your own pocket and go bankrupt?

Offline capt. apathy

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2002, 12:08:22 PM »
never heard of that. actually it usually works just the opisite. you pay the first $500 before  insurance will pay anything then you pay 20%. that way they don't have to pay out as much as many people can't afford to even pay the deductable(2 weeks pay for fulltime minimum wage) however in a catistrophic illness they are much better off than the uninsured.

as a side note. there are also the people that have the high deductable insurance that are worse off than those with no insurance. (the charity clinics wont see you if you have insurance, even if you are too poor to pay your deductable)

Offline Gunthr

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2002, 01:19:39 PM »
Is there a right to health care?

An excerpt from an interesting article about the "right to health care":

"Health care does not grow on trees or fall from the sky. The assertion of a right to medical care does not guarantee that there is going to be any health care to distribute. The partisans of these rights demand, with air of moral righteousness, that everyone have access to this good. But a demand does not create anything. Health care has to be produced by someone, and paid for by someone. One of the major arguments offered by supporters of a right to health care is that health care is an essential need. What good are our other liberties, they ask, if we cannot get medical treatment for illness? But we must ask, in return: why does need give someone a right? Fifty years ago, people whose kidneys were failing needed dialysis every bit as much as they do today, but there were no dialysis machines. Did they have a right to protection against kidney failure? Was Mother Nature violating their rights by making their kidneys fail without a remedy? It makes no sense to say that need itself confers a right unless someone else has the ability to meet that need. So any "right" to medical care imposes on someone the obligation to provide care to those who cannot provide it for themselves."

http://ios.org/articles/dkelley_right-to-health-care.asp
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Offline Eagler

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2002, 02:00:20 PM »
...(paraphrased).... "Why shouldn't people who have more money deserve better medical care than people who don't"


umm, he probably said it because it true ....

Just like ppl with money get better cars, lawyers, houses, etc .... than ppl without money...

think ur court appointed lawyer would stand a chace against a high dollar one? If you do, think again... tis money that makes the world go round, right or wrong ...
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2002, 02:01:30 PM »
If my local BMW dealers started giving their cars away for free right this instant, there would be none for me by the time I got there.

Its nice to say give everyone free health care but who will pay for it, who will get priority, how will it be distributed?

Offline Yeager

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2002, 02:09:23 PM »
Tumor dribbled in pain:

"Just an example of another elitist who doesn't give a crap about anyone but his or her self. How nice."

Yeager dribbled in response:
"I feel your pain (then bites lower lip with comnpassion)"

The company I work for forces me to donate a portion of my salary
to the less fortunate.  Hell Im not so fortunate myself.  Tumor, give me some money!

Just remember, in the end -wealthy people have to die just like the rest of us so it all eventually works out.

:D
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Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2002, 02:16:40 PM »
Having a free medical care system doesn't mean there wouldn't be also private clinics.

There's always an option to choose. Most finnish doctors run their private clinics after doing their hours at the public side..

The private clinics offer queue free operations, special treatments, plastic surgery etc..

Your comments above are like free public transportation would mean the BMW dealers would go out of business.. That is just not so. I'd still rather drive a BMW at my time of choice instead of waiting for the bus to come.

The idea is to provide medical care to everyone who needs it and if someone wants or affords a special treatment in luxury conditions, they can pay for it at the private side.

The way I see it is that the right for medical care is a part of general human rights.. It's inhumane to not treate a sick person simply because he/she has no money.

Offline Eagler

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2002, 02:47:17 PM »
the kicker is we already have "FREE" medical, just go to an emeregency room any Friday or Saturady night. $50 says over half the ppl sittiing in there do not have ANY health insurance and another 25% have gov plan that only covers 100% if they go to an emergency room .... it's a scam, NO One is refused medical treatment NOW.

All this crap does is raise the rates for those of us who DO Pay, and dilute our services and benefits .... get a job, get a life and get out of my face
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Offline mrsid2

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Rush has finally gone too far
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2002, 02:58:10 PM »
I have no knowledge of the real situation there because I haven't had the chance to see it.

If things are so fine and dandy there with medical health care, why are ppl whining about it then?