Welp, here I am Eagle
On to the discussion!
Well, you certainly present your case well sir I am sure any readers of this thread will appreciate the information you have given
First off, have to thank ya for that
So, thanks!
My point, while not particularly well presented is that the 190 D9 is a awesome plane, with great performance and guns. While I can’t prove this as I am not a particularly good pilot, I believe that given two pilots that can push both a 190 D9 and F4U-4 to the limits, the Dora should emerge the victor in most 1 on 1s. Yet we do not see an arena full of Doras.
True, to an extent. The Dora requires the types of skills that aren't very prevalent in the Main arena. It has a flight envelope that rewards a type of flying that not a lot of guys know how to do- hence the non balance issue. It doesn't need to be balanced, because the average Joe cannot bring her to her full potential. Hence the no-need for the perk on the Dora. An argument *could* be made that the Dora was rare enough to warrant a perk of say 5-10 points, but it would be a moot point, as you don't see that many out there anyway.
But the -4, on the other hand, has a performance range that enables it to yank, bank, climb, twist and twirl in the midst of a furball, and has a dual stage supercharged 2100 HP P&W to make it happen. What this means is that she can recover energy just as fast as she can spend it, which translates into an airplane that can keep her speed under even the most extreme of circumstances. The -1D requires a very steady hand, and a wise Energy concious pilot to keep her speed up, and if the pilot is good enough to do that, ol' big n' blue will reward him with 5-10 kill missions regularly.
The 4 bladed prop, coupled with a better engine (supercharger only adds to the mayhem
), gives the F4u-4 a perforance portfolio of a supermodel. She so out shines her opposition, that it needs to be perked.
I do not feel that the –4 would fill the arena either, especially with the armament of 6 50 cals. Tank busting, PT and general GV killing tends to favor a plane with cannons. The armament of the –4 does not lend it self to one burst kills at 400 yds like the Hispanos of the F4U-C.
Here's where the splittin' hairs begins. First off, the F4u-4 was THE rarest of the Hawgs to see action (unless a few of the Fg-1/2 super corsairs saw some action). So right there, you've got an argument for a perk due to it's limited service. Although with over 500 in theatre (a number to the tune of twice as many Doras- I *think*- LW guys correct me if I'm wrong!), it could be argued that a perk is not needed, as the Dora is not.
It isn't the armament that makes this plane need to be perked. It's her sheer outrageous performance that makes the perk neccessary. Once everyone got a taste of her, even the most devout cannon potato would at least nod their head in acknowledgement of her performance.
Regarding the armament- the 50cals, IMHO, are simply the best weapon in AH, just as I will argue of the RL WW2, and I'll tell ya why- first off, one well placed burst at 400-600 yards WILL kill just about anything. In my P51, all I need is a shot into the wingroot, or the tailfeathers, and only a 1/2 second to make it in, and the con is going down. While it may not be as glorious as the super blender Hispano Mk2 (or the super smashing MG151/20mms), it's enough to reward me with high kill sorties.
On to the ground attack thing- the -4 hawg, I believe, wouldn't be used for ground attack, I agree, but for many different reasons. This is the Fighter pilots Hawg. I wouldn't be caught dead taking a -4 hawg to a ground attack mission. It wouldn't be proper!
I have the -1d and the -1C with her cannons for that.
And you're right- 6 50 cals just ain't got the punch to kill a vehicle. But then again, just as you said, that's what the cannon hawg is for- this hawg is for fighter pilots only. Jabos need not apply
I played in here about 1 ˝ years ago, and I loved the F4U-C. But there is a tendency to dislike a plane that can give you a snout full of 20 mms from your 11 to 1 while in a turn or at a merge. I believe that is the main source for the term “Spit Dweeb” and a major cause of dislike for the NIK2
Well, the main reasons for the term "Spit Dweeb" comes from Warbirds (where the founders and many of their customer base come from). The thing you have to understand about the Spit is she's an excellent aircraft, and rewards the type of flying that you see most often in MMOFS(Massive Multiplayer Online Flight Simulation) arenas. She's got a decent head of steam, holds her speed remarkably well, can turn and climb with the best of them, and has a good punch in the way of her 2 hispanos. She's also EXTREMELY easy to fly. This allows the newer pilots to do well- the only problem is that newer pilots have a tendency to find one plane they like, and as such stick to the Spitfire- the first plane they could do well in. Hence the term "Spit Dweeb". A Spit dweeb is a guy who flies spits only for her forgiving nature, great firepower, and good performance- and for lack of knowing anything different.
She's a sweetheart of a plane, and if you tail me long enough, you'll catch me in a furball with my beloved Mk9 from time to time. I suggest you try her out. My love affair with her started in Feburary of 1997, when I started flying
The Niki, on the other hand, is for all intensive purposes, is the Axis' Spitfire. No, I don't know that much about her, no I have never really flown her, and yes, she can be a royal pain in the arse if you underestimate her. All I know is she can climb well, turn on a dime, and can knock ya outta the sky pretty quick.
And the 20mm's can be either very satisfying, or very aggrivating. I know I love it when a plane breaks apart on contact, or just explodes, but I also hate it when it happens to me
It's a love-hate relationship. Add this to the fact that I can't hit a damn thing with 'em (the 20mm's), and you see where I'm coming from.
I think that the F4U-4 would not be so lethal, and therefore be less used than a non-perked C Hawg. Probably less common than the NIK2, Spit MK9, or 190D9. Man fly over a field that is being vulched and count the Spits and NIKIs down there!
The first part of this argument holds true to an extent- it would be seen less then a non-perked Cannon hawg, but only for the sheer fact that she doesn't have the firepower. The purist fighter pilots would flock to the -4 hawg with wide open arms, and drooling jawlines, however.
As to the second part, eh....I see less F4u's then I thought I would. There are a few, but even now, they are less then the NIK, the Spit, but more then the Dora. I don't see all that many 190's flyin around....a true pity. Simply a remarkable aircraft, the 190 is. I took the occasional flight of fancy with her, and liked what I saw, but my sheer lack of ability to wield 20mm's caused me to look to the Allied side of things
Now as to your vulched field....
When vulching a field, you're looking for a specific set of aircraft performance traits- these are:
#1) A good turning ability (to bring your firepower to bear on the next poor soul trying to take off)
#2) Good low alt-performance (an aircraft that can do about 300-400 knots at sea level gives you the option of disengaging at will)
#3) A good E-retention quality (This translates into an aircraft that can hold her speed in a turn, and maneuvers. Spit is a great aircraft in this respect, NIK too, I believe)
#4) Good firepower (for getting all those kills!)
The Spit and the Niki fit this profile almost to a T. Hence the massive numbers once the vulch light is lit.
With my limited understanding of WWII ( I am a WWI aviation buff with no place to fly) the 262 was used primarily as a bomber-interceptor.
If you're a WWI nut, you should try out Dawn of Aces over in Warbirds country. The numbers are a lil' shallow, but you won't find a better old fashioned dogfight on the net.
Regarding the 262- Hitler actually insisted that it be used first as a ground attack platform, believe it or not. It was only later that he found out that it was damn near useless in this role, and allowed it to go to bomber interception.
A little trivia perk here- In late 1942/early 43, there were 2 prototypes of the Me-262 sitting in a factory, complete with plans. A bombing raid on the factory destroyed most everything, and set the development schedule back about 6-8 months. Imagine if by mid-43, the LW had the 262's! Would have made for a VERY different war.
Again the guns make this one mean puppy, and fast, maneuverable etc etc. This is one prop ride where you may have a good case for perking
Well, I can see your point, but the -4 Hawg has all of this, sans 20mm's. So I make my performance argument (as stated above).
Again, no reason to tar the -4 with Cannon Hawg brush
Never was my intention to that effect. I'm simply stating a case that for perfomance reasons alone, the -4 Hawg is perked, and deservedly so. That's all
And I sir am an obsessive-compulsive furballer. Anyways, my therapist says it is OK!
Well if that's the case, I'd get a second opinion if I were you!
But, different strokes for different folks- I'm a man who prefers the Energy fight, and generally stick to my Mustangs and Thunderbolts. Occasional Corsair flights tossed in, with the rare Spit 9 flight o' fancy (there IS something to be said about a furball after all, ya know!)
Nice discussion, 'mano!
