SuperBowl Anti-drug Commercials

[miko2d]

Originally posted by Soviet
Cigarettes are bastards cigars i've lost too many family member to them and support banning them.

 Even your family members disagree with you, so you want to ban it for us. Do you care about us more then you cared about your family?
 And killing people who were peacefully hurthing no one ut themselves?

 Instead of venturing an opinion on your intelligence I would just sign under mrfish' post.

Kratzer: the trail of narcotics and cocaine leads back to people that I don't think any true American would want to support

 And they are the ones benefitting from illegal status (and astronomical profits) of drugs.

funkedup: If somebody is stupid enough to believe that smoking pot supports terrorism
 The drug-lords and terrorists often cooperate.
 True, they do not have common goals and in fact when terrorists take power, they often successfully rid their countries of drugs. Terrorists are ready to risk their lives and their organisations are usually reliable while drug producers are in the business for profit and have no wish to risk their life.

 Ordinarily druggies and terorrists do have much to gain from cooperation.
 Terrorists often need money that drug lords have aplenty. Drug lords often have a need of reliable fighters ready to guard/assassinate/die, also the businesses smuggling and  of illegal money traffic/laundering are common parts in both activities.

 miko

[Tuomio]

Akdeja, then why wont the government do something about the illegal drug trade? So far the havent done anything, atleast nothing that can be proven effective (if we think this issue as a whole).

Fact: People have used drugs atleast as long as we can study our history back (btw pot is older in recreational use, than alcohol). People use drugs as we speak and they will do so till the end of times.

If we note this fact, it would be reasonable to offer those drugs via LEGAL way to ADULTS who wants it (as we do on some drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, not to mention the prescription drugs). Otherwise we can be absolutely sure, that they will buy it from the black markets. With this fact in mind, its our government, that supports the black drug markets,  but critizices the inviduals for using those markets, even that theres no legitimate alternatives available.

Questions, what happened with alcohol prohobition? Why was it put on place and why was it laid to rest pretty soon after? How does the worlwide drug prohobition differ from alcohol prohobition, from start to the unavoidable end? Whats the difference between Al Capone and Pablo Escobar? Why did Al Capone open the eyes of government, but Escobar did not, even that he had thousands of times more power and money over Al? Why i have the feeling, that Mr. Ashcroft aint asking these questions from himself when he does Hitler kind of speech against drug users?

[Kieran]

Vices are always a money-maker. Does that mean we should say, "WTF!", and go for it wholesale? I don't think so.

I'm with AKD wrt the black market aspect. Right or wrong, drugs are illegal. The comparison with alcohol ends there, ultimately.

Aside from the that, the war on hypocracy never ends. If you think legalizing pot will end hypocracy, you're wrong. All it will do is make a certain segment of our society happy- though this may not be in the whole country's best interests.

[AKDejaVu]

Akdeja, then why wont the government do something about the illegal drug trade? So far the havent done anything, atleast nothing that can be proven effective (if we think this issue as a whole).

I'm sorry... but are you saying that its the governments fault that its citizens chose to buy drugs even though the government has made them illegal?

Is it also the governments fault that people routinely excede the speed limit on the highways too?

There is only one person responsible for any single purchase of drugs.  It has nothing to do with the government... it has everything to do with an individuals decision.

Such is the price we pay to live in the U.S.  We cannot allow the government to do the things necessary to eliminate illegal drug sales... pretty much EVERYONE agrees to that.  The question is, how much should we rely on them?  I mean.. even if its subtle such as commercials in a football game... there are uproars.

If we note this fact, it would be reasonable to offer those drugs via LEGAL way to ADULTS who wants it (as we do on some drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, not to mention the prescription drugs). Otherwise we can be absolutely sure, that they will buy it from the black markets. With this fact in mind, its our government, that supports the black drug markets, but critizices the inviduals for using those markets, even that theres no legitimate alternatives available.

The black market will exist as long as something desired is deemed illegal.  Legalizing everything to avoid a black market situation is not the answer.  Nor is it an excuse for people currently contributing to black market situations.

IF YOU ARE BUYING DRUGS YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE BLACK MARKET DRUG DEALING UNDERGROUND.  IF YOU DO NOT BUY DRUGS, YOU ARE NOT.  Sorry, but that is pretty simple.  Everything else is just an excuse for justifying an illegal habbit.

Personally, I have no problem with drug use.  I do have a problem with the denial that goes into accepting just where the money used to buy drugs goes.

Fact: People have used drugs atleast as long as we can study our history back (btw pot is older in recreational use, than alcohol). People use drugs as we speak and they will do so till the end of times.

So... I could sit and list quite a few things that occured frequently in past history that aren't quite legal these days.  The law is about the here and now... not about the past.  Its actually a common belief that the law was designed to learn from past mistakes.

Questions, what happened with alcohol prohobition? Why was it put on place and why was it laid to rest pretty soon after?

The men came back from war... and realized the impact of allowing the women to vote.

Whats the difference between Al Capone and Pablo Escobar? Why did Al Capone open the eyes of government, but Escobar did not, even that he had thousands of times more power and money over Al?

Where did Al Capone live?  Where did Escobar live?  That's pretty easy.  When alchohol was being smuggled in from Canada, we didn't go after them damn Canadians.

Why i have the feeling, that Mr. Ashcroft aint asking these questions from himself when he does Hitler kind of speech against drug users?

Ah.. yes.. let's liken anti-illegal-drug-use speaches to behing Hitleresque.  Excellent way to prove your point.  Now.. just for clarity... is this the government that you feel should be doing more about the drug trafficing if they were really that concerned about it?

the fallacy in these commercials is suppressed evidence. The reason why criminal organizations trade in drugs is that they can make artificially high profits thanks to the US's "War on Drugs".

You do realize that you are linking criminal organizations to drug trafficing don't you?  And "artifically high profits"?!  What is a more realistic price controlled price for drugs?

Besides... its quite clear that drugs being illegal is why there is a black market.  Its why drugs are smuggled into the country.  Its why people are killed, bribed and robbed.

The only thing that is really in question is exactly who is funding all this.  I think alot of people in the U.S. and on this forum are in denial on this particular topic.

AKDejaVu

[miko2d]

Pablo Ecobar and other drug lords are not interested in drugs being made legal - quite the opposite.
 He is corrupting our country three ways:

 1. Encouraging the citizens/children to disrespect/break the laws by engaging in illegal activity.
 2. Corrupting our legislature to keep drugs illegal so that they can make thier profits.
 3. Corrupting our law enforcement to conduct their trade.

 And of course there are secondary effects of drugs like crime to get money for them.

 If drugs were legal, they would be dirt cheap, adhere to standards, their sale well regulated.
 They would be easier to get for adults but there would be no insentive for people to "push" them onto the children.
 Also, there would not be that "forbidden fruit" temptation.

  miko

[Gunthr]

"If drugs were legal, they would be dirt cheap, adhere to standards, their sale well regulated.
They would be easier to get for adults but there would be no insentive for people to "push" them onto the children.
Also, there would not be that "forbidden fruit" temptation."

Are you talking about Crack Cocaine? Powder cocaine? Crystal Meth? LSD? Heroin? Morhine derivatives? Amphetamines? PCP? Rohypnol? Ecstasy? GHB, 0pium?

The idea is preposterous. You can't deal with the issue of "drugs" without making some distinctions between drugs, and even then, the issue is more complicated than it first appears.

I have to wonder: what kind of message does it send our children if our society promotes or tacitly approves of the culture of drug use? I just can't see it as a good thing for society to officially condone.

Regarding pot, any drug that is "psychoactive" can be psychologically addicting, so even though you may be able to take it or leave it, there are many people who feel they can't function well or enjoy things without it.

The government CAN'T legalize it. The government would have its collective bellybutton sued off the first time some pot head got cancer of the throat!

Love is the drug for me

[Soviet]

It's absoultly amazing seeing all the druggies support their precious high here.  I rarly if ever drink alcohol.  Have never smoked a Cigarette or done any of those other drugs.  I mean come on you think marijuana is ok? Your the ones who need psyhiatic help.  I knew i was gonna get flamed for this cause you guys view Pot as OK.  Well it's not ok, it's illegal who the hell gave you the right to decide if a law is worth following or not?  Like it or not we must follow the laws set before us.  You don't like it? Call your congressman to get it changed.  To say Marijuana is ok is roadkill sure maybe it doesn't affect you too much physically but it's addictive and cost money, money that could be put to better things like supporting your children.

If adults do marijuana then children get the image "oh it's ok for him to do it and he's an adult.  I'm sure it's fine for me to smoke a joint" Believe me in High School 1 in 4 kids were doing drugs on a regular basis.

Granted, my violent threats were an outburst of anger, i appologize for making those.  I've just seen to many people get hurt by drugs, i've seen friends file for bankruptcy, i've seen people die of alcohol poisoning, i've seen family and friends die from lung cancer and emphazema (sp?) caused from cigarettes.  To tell the truth cigarettes are one of the worse drugs because they affect people around the smoker, second hand smoke.... I just view it as clean to not do any drugs and i'd like other people to stay drug free because it really is the best way to live.

sorry for everything that sounded offensive I'm just voicing my opinion without any modifications.

[JoeCrip]

Anyone remember the Squad "United Pot Heads Of America"?

Well, they are a bunch of f*(&ing morons. Drugs are wrong anyway you look at it? Wana do drugs? Go live in Iraq, Iran, or Africa where there are no laws and you can do what ever you want. Anyone who does drugs should be locked up for life IMO.

[JoeCrip]

BTW  MrFish, i'm guessing you do drugs....you seem to be defending them pretty well. Personally , i love watching TV and see drug dealers get busted, gives me a good laugh. Put'em where they belong, behind bars  

[AKSWulfe]

Marijuana is not addictive- at all.
-SW

[mrfish]

Originally posted by Soviet
I rarly if ever drink alcohol.

...but you do drink alcohol sometimes right?...to get high or for nutritional value?

and you have no problem with others taking the drug alcohol to get high...right?

of course not becaue that's - uh - well... that's different that's all...

Originally posted by Soviet
Well it's not ok, it's illegal who the hell gave you the right to decide if a law is worth following or not?

governments love people like you.

[Dinger]

Another fallacy: Ad hominem circumstantial.  The fact that someone uses drugs has no bearing on the cogency of the argument.  That person can make a bad argument or a good one.

Yes, illegal drugs are profitable because they're illegal.  Yes, organized criminals run drugs because they're profitable.  Yes, organized crime is nasty for human life in general; and yes, governments hostile to the US have been known to support the production of illegal drugs.

Sure, you could by this logic say that someone who buys illegal drugs supports terrorism.
But by the same logic, you could argue that the US, by making drugs illegal, supports terrorism.
And guess what?  If you look at our jails, it's pretty hard to legislate narcotics out of existence.  So if the purveyors of the "drugs support terrorism" message honestly believed this to be the main reason why drugs are bad, they'd be supporting the legalization of drugs currently deemed illegal.

That's the problem here.  The argument being made is not that drugs are detrimental to one's health, destroy communities ruin lives, but that they support terrorism.  And, if that's the case, the solution isn't to ask every drug user to stop, but to ruin the ability of organized criminals to profit from drugs.
That's why the ad is ultimately supporting a lie.  Nobody who's posted here has argued that legalization and control won't kill the profits for these groups.  And nobody here believes that asking people not to use drugs will have much of an effect on the profits for these groups.  So ultimately, the ad is lie.  And who here would dare lie to their kids about the effects of drugs?  If they catch you in one small lie, they'll just tune you out.

I mean, come on, the truth isn't scary enough?

[Udie at Work]

What ever happened to "Give me liberty or give me death"  or as Tahgut wrote in a post the other day "Any one who would give up freedom for security deserves neither"

 Question 1.  Do we live in a free country?


 Question 2.  Is it anybodies business what the hell I do in my own home, by myself?


 Question 3.  Why the hell do they try and link marijuana usage with terrorism?  That's freakin stupid and lends credence to what Weazel says about Bush.  (enjoy you'r bone Weazel it's the only one you're getting )  Heroine usage, yes though I bet most of what we get comes from South America.

 Question 4.  Where is the opium grown/sold that is used to make the USA/Worlds supply of say Morphine, Dimerol and all the other medicaly accepted opiets.


 Question 5.  How many people last weekend were killed in stoned driver accedents?


 Question 6. How many people were killed last weekend in drunk driving accedents?  How many since 9/11?


 I watched the movie "Untouchables" this weekend with Costner and Denero.  Man it's amazing how much that paralells the drug gangs of today.  Why is it that people refuse to learn from history?


 USA drug laws are hypocritical.  Kids see throuh this.  I wish I had seen the drug commercial but was playing GR durring 1/2 time.  HMMMMM I wonder did they play one the other drug commercials?  You know the ones selling anything from nose dryerupers to weenie growers?    You think kids don't see the hypocracy in that?  This drug is bad and helps terrorists, this drug is good and helps us all live (with the listed side effects) Kids don't do drugs! That hypocritical approach will turn a teenaged rebel to drugs faster than sitting them infront of the stuff.  HMMMM if they lie about this they must lie about the effects/after effects too.   Don't forget, kids are smart.


 About 4 years ago at Thanksgiving with my dad and OLD friends of the family. I've known these 2 my whole life, my dad went to school with them back in the 50's!  We're sitting at the table eating and talking.  We're all Republican and are generaly squeaking about Clinton. My dad, to mess, with me, brings up the subject of marijuana.   Man oh man Uncle Julian starts fuming at the mouth going on an on about how bad that stuff is and how it gives flashbacks and what not  how it makes you listen to acid rock!!  Then he spouts off with "Everybody who smokes pot should be executed, that would solve the problem"   Now one thing I must say is that these people are like family to me, I literally called them Uncle Julian and Aunt Pat my entire life.  You should have seen the look on their faces when I said in a saddened tone of vouce "You wan't me dead Uncle Julian?"  Well I was actually able to talk them down from that hardcore stance to only killing the dealers.  My point is that you should really think about how hardcore you are on this issue, you never know who you'd be sentencing to death.

 And yes this next statement is a generalization, but it's still true.  Anybody who doesn't think today's drug laws are hypocritical is either 1. very ignorant/stupid or 2. lying to either themselves or their loved ones.   To lie to keep somebody from doing something is the absolute worst way to keep them from doing it.  WHEN they find out you're lying they will do it in spades and probobly have trust issues with you from then on.  Also,  how many freakin people have spent years of their lives in prison with true evil people (ie.. murderers and rapists) for some galdarned pot.  That's diddlying evil man anyway you look at it.  Screw the law, sometimes it's WRONG  (ie...slavery and civil rights)  That's the worst part of the messed up laws, how many lives they've ruined.



 work needs me....


PS...

 I'm still waiting to see somebody get hurt from POT.  Well that's not true anymore.  One night last week I was smokin.  Took a REALLY BIG HIT , you know about 5 times my lung capacity, and decided that I was goin to keep it as long as I could.  Which turned out to be about 3 seconds  Well the nerves that tell my sinus and face muscles what to do when you cough got cut off or something because my nose and mouth stayed shut.  The smoke in my lungs was forced up my sinus passage and actually got past my nose and into the sinus cavities above my eyes.  I over pressured my whole face hehehe it hurt squealing bad!!!!  had an instant sinus headache for about 3 hours after that too and I could smell it the next day .  First time in 20+ years I hurt myself doing that LOL!!!!  Somebody kill me please I need the rescue!


ditto to everything mrfish said in this thread....................

[Eagler]

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Marijuana is not addictive- at all.
-SW

bull

this is an over generalization, it may or may not be for you but you cannot say it isn't for everyone. depends on many factors one of which is how heavy a smoker is. There are many kinds of addictions, some physical, some in da head....

[mora]

Originally posted by Gunthr
Are you talking about Crack Cocaine? Powder cocaine? Crystal Meth? LSD? Heroin? Morhine derivatives? Amphetamines? PCP? Rohypnol? Ecstasy? GHB?.

I guess that is your list of "extremely harmful" drugs?  Why are LSD and GHB on that list? There are also many other drugs that I think should be in regulated sale like hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Dutch drug policy is doing quite well despite of US pressure and that is the direction in Europe. This my view of ideal drug policy, there would be three categories for regulated substances:

-Regulated sale of "soft" drugs to adults(18). Drugs like cannabis, GHB and many hallucinogens would be in this category.

-Addictive drugs that would only be sold by prescription to addicts, opiates would be in this category. There would be 2 big profits from this kind of arrengement. Firstly, people wouldn't have to resort to crimes to get their stuff. Secondly, there wouldn't be a call for huge illegal markets, thus there would smaller risk of people getting in contact with these drugs.

-Totally banned drugs, maybe meth and PCP. To make their prophibition work there should be safer alternatives to these drugs in other categories ie. meth could be in this group, but "regular" amphetamine would be in one of the other groups. Also health effects of  these drugs should be thoroughly researched and honestly published. Law enforcement should be directed against import and manufacturing of drugs in this category.

Any thoughts how cocaine and ecstacy should be treated in this kind of system? Both are very popular with quite serious health effects and addictivity in case of cocaine.

Mora