Author Topic: Perk/ENV discussions aka. lies, lies and statisics :)  (Read 933 times)

Offline fd ski

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Perk/ENV discussions aka. lies, lies and statisics :)
« on: April 03, 2002, 11:25:37 AM »
Analisys of the Env'y and perk point system from the USAGE point.

Thesis:
Perk point and ENV point systems are designed to even out the playing field for all planes in the arena.

Planes which do not have high usage are encouraged by making then high ENY value, which allows pilots to accumulate perk points faster.


Method:
The only official sources from HTC are on the scores pages.
Info was drawn from IE Expanded format scores for tour 26 ( march ).

All planes were matched up with their env values ( NOTE: Those are NEW AND UPDATED ENV values as posted by Eskimo2 at http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49877
This is to refect the aim in which Pyro would like us to go towads. Also, I did not have the old ENV values for analisys, if anyone has them, please send them my way. )

Total number of earned PERK points per each plane type was calculated. Example:
Zeke killed 100 C205s, hince 27/40 * 100 = 67.5 points
( there is an assumption here that ALL those kills were landed, which offcourse they were not. I have no access to sortie/death data hince I have to assume a liniar relation for all the planes. Good offshoot of this is that it eliminates all the discussion on the defensive abilities of the planes involved - good speed, good climb, ability to dive away )

Total number of perk points for each plane was totaled, and divided by the total number of kills.
Example:
Zeke had total of 11978.54 perk points earned and total of 8156 kills. 11978.54/8156 = 1.468679 perk points per kill.

Same was done for all the planes.

Also, all the kills were totalled up and mean of kills was found by dividing total number of kills/total number of planes. If all the planes got equal number of kills, they would get 2.27% of the total number of kills, which is 6144.77 kills.

Both data sources were put in the columns attached with this post.
Results were sorted by the AVERAGE PERK POINTS/KILL column.

Means were:
Average plane will get 1.13 perk points for a kill.
Average plane will score 6144 kills in the tour.

P/K column

Planes marked in red for Perks/Kills columns are those which earn LESS THEN HALF of the average P/K points. Flying those planes, you need to score twice the number of kills to get your average.

Planes marked in green in P/K column, are those which earn DOUBLE number of perk points per kill. Flying those planes will earn you twice the number of perk points per kill.

% Kills column

RED: planes which on average score more then DOUBLE average number of kills for the arena. ( Planes that scored more then 6144*2 = 12288 kills ) This indicates OVERUSAGE.

GREEN: Planes which scored less then half the average kills in the arena ( 6144/2 = 3072 kills ). This indicates UNDERUSAGE.



Conclusions:

First perk points per kill:

All perk planes and N1K2 and Spitfire 9 fall in the category of planes which earn least points for flying them.

Usage ( % kills ) of Perk planes is very small, which Spitfire IX is a king of the hill.
Interesting fact is that second most used planes - P51D doesn't fall in the Low P/K category.
Another heavly overused planes - LA7 on average earns 1.5 times more points per kill then spitfire 9 or N1K2.

Of interest is %kills of F4U1-C - low perk in the arena. It has reasonable 2.02 usage, well within 2.27% mean. This seems to lend creditibility to those calling for overall lowering level of perks to single digits and teens.

As far as %kill numbers are conserned ( usage )

Planes in the bottom of the list - 202, Ki61, 109E/F, Spit 1, Hurries are bargin perk hunters, and very much UNDERUSED.
Suggestion here would be to raise their ENV point value even higher, which may in turn raise the usage levels.

Low usage of P51B is of interest here, seeing how it's younger brother 51D is the second most used plane in the plane set.


Feel free to draw your own conclusions.


Disclaimer:
I realise that %kills isn't the best indicator of usage, but I have no other reliable indicator that I could use.
Pyro, would sortie number be avaiable on request ?

Offline AKSWulfe

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Perk/ENV discussions aka. lies, lies and statisics :)
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2002, 11:34:58 AM »
Making the ENY value of the very seldom used aircraft high to encourage more people to fly them has no more of an effect on people flying them than saying, "Hey guy, I'll give ya a shiney nickle if you fly a SpitI instead of a SpitIX."

Getting perk aircraft isn't their goal, being the most 3l33t f1g|-|t3r p10l3t is their goal... but they have no quarrels with squeaking about how they can't afford to fly a perk plane.

Learn the rules of the game and you'll get that perty perk plane, keep flying them other low ENY planes you'll never get a perk plane.
-SW

Offline Apache

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Perk/ENV discussions aka. lies, lies and statisics :)
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2002, 11:37:53 AM »
Yep SW. You could drop the La7 ENY to 0 and I bet you would still see them in hordes.

Offline Kirin

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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2002, 11:44:20 AM »
Solution:  More low level perks!! Perk the La7 and they will care about ENY value! Along with it, perk the P51D, the G10, the D9, the Yak etc. ... !

Mid- war planes should be free - force em to fly early war to get the late war monsters... :)
Real men fly Radial!

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2002, 11:46:46 AM »
That makes sense to me Kirin.

For every late war plane that could be perked, there is an earlier variant readily available.
-SW

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2002, 11:58:47 AM »
Perking the P-51 would be a bad idea.  Pure and simple.

Besides... everyone seems to be completely ignoring the most comonly used aircraft... the spit IX.

Its strange to me... this whole discussion.

You can argue based on performance, but several planes outperform the Spitfire Mk IX is many categories.

You can argue based on usage, but the Spitfire Mk IX is used more than other much faster aircraft.

The truth of the matter is that people will fly the most generic plane available.  The jack of all trades will always be the most popular for those that don't wish to have to think about what plane to fly.

The only thing that perking current MA planes does is limit the number of available choices.  Limitting is a bad thing.  Especially if it means taking away.

I fail to see the need to limit the Spitfire Mk IX usage, the La-7 usage, the P-51 usage or really... any other non-perked aircraft in the MA.  Can anyone actually show that they have more/less trouble fighting these aircraft than any others?  What happens when the next aircraft becomes more popular?

It just suprises me that so much time and energy is spent trying to dictate what others should or should not fly.

The perk system should remain a method to allow the introduction of aircraft that would impact the MA too greatly.  I fail to see how a plane with a 1:1 k/d is falling into that category.

There is no need to "even out" the types of aircraft you are flying against.

AKDejaVu

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2002, 12:04:14 PM »
Makes no sense at all.  HTC wants to make money--they're not going to make money by pissing off their customers and causing them to quit the game (I'd be the first out the door).   You can't make a game popular by taking away all the popular equipment.

If you people want a place for the earlier planes to compete, that'a fine, but don't argue for changing the MA--argue for them to open a second arena (or permanently change the CT to early-war, all the time).


J_A_B

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2002, 12:05:23 PM »
DJ, parity.

There is absolutely NO parity with a SpitI in the same arena as a P51D.... At some point a lot of planes will either a) have to be limited or b) be perked or even c) RPS with perks.

One way or the other, we are moving into the early years.... a place we were with before only by 1 plane (the 202). With the introduction of the 110C-4, SpitI, HurriI, and 109E-4/B, we are seeing the parity of performance drastically dissipate.

The parity is gone, in order for this game to be enjoyable and cater to everyone... the parity must be present.

I'll say it again, a P51D and a SpitI in the same arena does not equate to parity.
-SW

Offline Mathman

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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2002, 12:11:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe

For every late war plane that could be perked, there is an earlier variant readily available.
-SW


I will agree with this when the F6F-3 and the F4F-4/FM-1/FM-2 is added for us USN fans, when the P-40, P-39, early model P-38 are added for the USAAF fans, when the early model Zekes are added (A6M2, both A6M3's, or even the sraight A6M5) for the IJN fans, when the Ki-43 and Ki-44 are added for the IJAAF fans.  This doesn't even get into all the various dive bombers and tordonuts that were around back then.

Until this happens, those of us who prefer PTO planes are left flying the F4U-1 - and that is it.  I won't even get into the whole early war Eastern Front for the VVS fans.

When these sets are fleshed out, I will support perking late war planes at a low cost.  Then again, I am never vocal about it and would most likely keep flying the F6F even if it is perked (meaning I can really care less about what is perked and isn't).

-math

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2002, 12:13:47 PM »
people beetch about not being able to fly a perk rides then you check their stats and they fly spit ixs la7 p51s and n1k2's.....

There is only 7 perk planes

262
Arado
152
Temp
F4u4
Spit14
Chog

The way folks are carrying on about how unfair it is you would think someone is stealing from them.

My ex squaddie had 6000+ perks and can give a fek about perk planes. Even if free he wouldn't fly umm.

If they desire them so much get in a plane with a lo eny value and kill ones with a high eny value. It aint that hard. Personally I dunno what they think they are missing out on. As soon as they get killed and realize that there are no magic planes they will be right back in the la7s spits n1k2s and la7s.

The fact is eny value only efects folks who want to fly perk planes. Instead of adjusting to the rules of the game they whine and cry how the game should be re-adjusted to suit them.

Then theres the other camp that says the highest perk ought to be no more then 20.

Now I am not as good as most of the guys in ah I am at best average. I flew a 205 once and got 70 perks. Yeah thats way above the average. But flying a 205 and g2 I have had pretty regular runs of 20 perks and probrably average 12-14 a sortie.

I had at one time 4200 fighter perks I lost most of umm in 262s when it was new. I got down to around 1200 now I am back to 2300. I average maybe 30-40 hours a tour.

the only reason the average perk sortie in AH is so low is because of the planes most of the rest fly. They know the eny value going in.

Eny values only matter when you want that shiney spit 14 or temp or 262. and if you cant earn 10 perks a day get out of the la7 and earn your ride like anyone else who wants to fly a perk plane.

No free perk days
No free perk points handed out
No jet day
No reducing perk planes to the point where they are so cheap might as be free

The main inst suffering from the rarity of perk planes

People are beetchin about the over dosage of spits la7s p51s in the main now. If everyone spent 500 perks a tour imagine the beetchin. Fly what ever plane you want for what ever reason you want. No one oughta catch crap because of the planes they ride.  But when it comes to perks earn like everyone else.

USN fly the f4u-1

Raf fly hurris

Usaaf fly d11 or p51b

Lw e4 f4 g2

VVs la5 or yak9t

Ijn/a

Zeke and tonies

Whatever your plane type preference is you can earn your precious perk bird.

We dont need a welfare perk system. My brother's wife's brother manages a a gas station in the rough part of town here. On the 1st and 15th the lottery line is jam packed. I can imagine a free perk day in ah being near the same.

No Free Lunch......

Offline minus

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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2002, 12:15:42 PM »
J A  B are right, but to stimule a chalange , some separate qlasifications , mostly every 1 is it in squad  , all squad historic or fictive  have to select  2 or 3 planes what will  give character of the squad  , then you can clas squads in to category  Historical or Fictive , and the last category for people who dont like anithing a free  choice without limit , just like now,  but then not get reward  on perks or  ENY values  like  sqad ranked  or historicl squad ranked

 ?

Offline Karaya

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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2002, 12:19:10 PM »
what is a perk?

Offline Tac

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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2002, 12:20:14 PM »
ive said that all along kirin.

I believe that perking all planes with an earlier variant modelled in-game as cheap perks would solve this fantastic powerplane horde we're so used to seeing.

Say, make them cost 1 perk point per model avaliable. For example:

109E=0
F4= .5
G2=1
G6=1.5
G10=2

P-51b=0
p-51D=2

spit1+seafire=0
spitv=.5
spitIX=1

jug11=0
d25=1
d30=1.5

La5=0
la7=2

Yak9t=0
Yak9U=1

38F=0
38J=.5
38L=1   (pass the bong, im dreaming its fixed and earlier versions modelled again!) ;)

n1k1=0 (augh.. hangoverss)
n1k2-J=1

a6m2=0
a6m3=.5
a6m5=1

110C4=0
110G2=1

hurri1/40mm Hurri=0
20mm Hurri=1

f4u-1=0
f4u-C=4
f4u-D=1

c202=0
c205=1

etc etc

With this in place, anyone can up an early plane and gain the 2 perks in 1 or 2 sorties and be able to fly his late war plane of choice. We would see more use of the early planes, thus HTC efforts in modelling them would not go to waste (202s and spit1's? ive yet to see more than 1 a month in the air!).

Adjusting the ENY and OBJ values so that the early planes can gain 1 point for shooting any other early war plane and like 2 or 3 perks for shooting a late war ride, and so that the late war rides get like .2 points for shooting an early war plane and 1 point for shooting a late war plane.

I loved how a system like this worked in the CT, it was great.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2002, 12:22:22 PM »
Argue extremes all you want (P-51 vs Spit I)... it won't change the fact that people will still prefer the Spit V over the Spit I.  The only way to get the "parity" you are looking for is to fly the CT.  Either that or limit the MA to one aircraft choice.

AKDejaVu

Offline Taiaha

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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2002, 12:31:26 PM »
Ah, what a pleasure it is to read a thread that doesn't simply consist of the settling of old scores, old positions rehashed, and the belaboring of the obvious, but contains new and insightful observations about pressing concerns of the day.