Fuse delay for bombs

[Revvin]

I know why he wants it. This is not the cure for that ailement. The cure for not blowing yourself up is dropping your bombs from higher up or breaking as soon as you release them. No fuse in the world is going to save you if you keep flying straight and level NOE after releasing your bombs.

I'm sorry but that statement is wrong, Mosquito pilots used a 11 sec fuse, this gives plenty of time for a Mosquito to be away from the bomb blast flying at 250MPH+. NOE raids were one of the Mosquito's more memorable roles not to mention a whole host of other planes which dropped bombs at low alt with a fuse delay so why should we have to drop from a higher altitude if it was a tactic well used by the real planes? breaking as soon as you release is also pointless, you either get chewed up by ack or GV's, a fuse delay was the answer in RL as it is here for AH its as simple as that.

[AKDejaVu]

Sorry revvin.. but if its dropped NOE... its going to keep skipping and detonate too close to the aircraft.  The sinking situation was the only potential protector.. or it colliding with an object... which is a risky move.

If it had some kind of retarded fins on it.. it would slow it making the impact behind the plane... but a bomb being dropped at 250 mph is going to want to keep going in that direction and at that speed.

BTW.. any idea how long it takes for a bomb (or anything) to drop 500 feet?

AKDejaVu

[BenDover]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
retarded fins on it..

now now, no need for racist remarks!!:)

[Steven]

I always thought that a fuse-delay had nothing to do with protecting the bomber aircraft but rather this is the job of some type of retardation device on the actual bomb.  The fuse-delay controls where the bomb explodes, that is, how deep into the ground it drives itself before exploding.  I guess this would also have an affect on skip-bombing as well as already mentioned.

I learned that a modern bomb has a natural 6-mil error.  Dropped from high altitude, this would be quite some distance on the ground.  More than a fuse delay, I'd like to see a 6-mil error applied to the fall of bombs in Aces High.  This would make the current bombing less precise/pinpoint and require a more historical carpet-bombing tactic.

[sling322]

Originally posted by Steven
This would make the current bombing less precise/pinpoint and require a more historical carpet-bombing tactic.

Carpet bombing would be great.....if we have an accurate blast radius modelled.  Without the blast radius modelled, nobody would fly bombers if they couldnt depend on their bombs hitting the target they were dropped on.

[Revvin]

Sorry revvin.. but if its dropped NOE... its going to keep skipping and detonate too close to the aircraft. The sinking situation was the only potential protector.. or it colliding with an object... which is a risky move

I don't know how easy I have to make this for you Deja...count 11 seconds as accurately as you can, now imagine how far away a plane flying at 250-300mph will be from that initial point. A direct hit and the bomb is going nowhere and lets face it thats what we are aiming to do score a direct hit, it hits the side of a tank and does'nt do much else, if it hits soft ground or grass its not going to go far but even if it hits hard ground on tarmac its losing energy with every 'skip' or 'bounce' and certainlty won't keep up with an unhindered plane flying at 250mph-300mph.

[Revvin]

I learned that a modern bomb has a natural 6-mil error. Dropped from high altitude, this would be quite some distance on the ground. More than a fuse delay, I'd like to see a 6-mil error applied to the fall of bombs in Aces High. This would make the current bombing less precise/pinpoint and require a more historical carpet-bombing tactic.

In a perfect world I'd have no problem with such a realistic feature but the fact is that targetsin AH require pretty much direct hits or they are not destroyed. Can't place the cart before the horse.

[Staga]

AKDjV some bombs had timed fuses; They could blow up in few secs after they hit ground or in some cases; few days after the drop depending timer.

[Preon1]

Wasn't the fuse setting primarily put in place to keep people from carbombing?  (for those who don't know, carbombing was the practice of taking bombers on vulched fields and dropping large eggs when an nme fiter straffed you so that you could take him with you in the blast)

How would you include a fuse function that would keep carbombing from coming back?

[eddiek]

Simple:  Disable bomb drops on the ground, just like the gunners are disabled while the buff is on the ground.

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Preon1
Wasn't the fuse setting primarily put in place to keep people from carbombing?

Carbombing was not necessarily the thing that was being fixed.  It was people pointing out that bombs needed to turn the veigns to arm the bomb.  That should not happen when the plane is sitting still on the ground.  HT agreed.

If you impliment a timed delay... you are now able to do it again.  Unless you impliment a totally unrealistic control to keep car bombing in check.

Man.. imagine what a timed delay would do to vulching.  You swoop in on a plane rolling down the runway and notice a black spot 200 yards behind him and right below you... then BOOM!.

AKDejaVu

[Tjay]

One thing that seems to have been missed here is that without retardation there is a serious real risk that a bomb dropped at very low level will bounce up and destroy the dropping aircraft even with a fuse delay. In real life, breaking immediately after release didn't guarantee safe passage as the bomb didn't always bounce straight.
 
So overall, I feel that the existing risk in AH of fragging yourself with your own ordnance  when releasing at very low level (assuming the bomb travels at least 1000ft after release) is a reasonable simulation of the real time risks.

Btw, as I understand it, fuse delays were set for various reasons. Sometimes just to allow the bomber to clear the blast area, sometimes to make bomb clearance more hazardous. (Delayed action.) I think the delay built-in to bombs like the Tallboy wasn't connected to the arming fuse itself, but to an inertia switch that sensed the actual impact and fired the detonator about half a second later after the bomb had penetrated the concrete.

[Seagoon]

What about adding parafrags instead of fuse delayed bombs?

I quote:

"The 345th Air Apaches

     The 345th Medium Bombardment Group,   "The Air Apaches" were widely known in the Southwest Pacific theatre. Their brightly painted Falcon (498th Sqdn), Bat (499th Sqdn), Bat (500th Sqdn) and Panther (501st Sqdn) Mitchell B-25 twin engine bombers flew at low level, often at tree-top height. Converted to gun nosed B-25's, with up to 12 forward firing fifty caliber machine guns they were well respected and feared by the Japanese. Used in conjunction with the heavy firepower were parafrag bombs, bombs using parachutes to allow the bomber to move away to a safe distance before detonation."
[ http://www.web-birds.com/5th/345/345th.html ]

[Gwjr2]

Why is it that all good post have to put up with AKDejaVu? you my friend have way too much time on your hands....

the fuse delay is a great idea btw

and AKDejaVu some advice go outside look at the sun you remember what that is...maybe we need to put a limit on how many post per day..um in his case per hour...

so all do respect shutup for awhile all you do is instigate crap

and too all others sorry about rant just sick of his useless post

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Revvin


I don't know how easy I have to make this for you Deja...count 11 seconds as accurately as you can, now imagine how far away a plane flying at 250-300mph will be from that initial point.

And during this 11 seconds... what was the bomb doing?  Just sitting there?

A direct hit and the bomb is going nowhere and lets face it thats what we are aiming to do score a direct hit, it hits the side of a tank and does'nt do much else, if it hits soft ground or grass its not going to go far but even if it hits hard ground on tarmac its losing energy with every 'skip' or 'bounce' and certainlty won't keep up with an unhindered plane flying at 250mph-300mph.

Ah... a "direct hit in the vertical" and the bomb isn't really going to go anywhere.  Bombs will skip, bounce and ricochet with the best of them from virtually any other angle.

Really... if it hits any ground.. its going to skip... or bounce... or shoot straight up.  If it hits a tree... what does it do then?  If it hits just short of a target... what happens?  If it is coming in from a flat trajectory and hits on the open side of a hangar... what happens?

Bombs don't hit the ground and just stop.  That concept is so flawed that this whole argument is moot.  What you are asking for is either a)totally unrealistic or b)involves HTC completely modeling an "after impact" effect with every bomb dropped.

AKDejaVu