What's The Rook Problem?

[Don]

>>rooks run from a fair fight and complain when outnumbered<<


MOOSE COOKIES!!!

[Don]

>>Most of the action is squad oriented instead of team oriented.<<
Depending on the night, and what is happening in the arena, this can be a part of the problem.
RJO style, is there anything wrong with organizing in a cooperative way,, an attack ?
I know I have logged on and seen on several occassions an nme field one sector away from Rook HQ. Rooks have tended to be distracted by nme actions and the threat goes unnoticed or, nothing is done to remove the immediate threat. I have seen the problem and, pointed it out over CH2. After a while Rooks have joined in the effort, removed the threat and then organized to clean up our lines and roll the nme before us; and this is without overwhelming numbers.
If squad COs would look at the map and figure what is best for the country instead of their squads perhaps this would yeild more success and eventually more kills; everybody wins.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Seagoon
1) Why do we seem religiously opposed to working together? On the odd occasion that someone posts a mission, it is inevitably undersubscribed some are even totally ignored even when they aren't stupid. Calls for help go ignored, calls to consolidate in one area are also ignored, calls for updates as to the situation at a given field are ignored. No country is worse than the Rooks about failing to provide escorts for Goons; I've actually watched Rooks with OVERWHELMING numbers at a base allow a single stray Con to blow away an incoming Rook Goon because they are more interested in being the first of five Rooks to chase down another fleeing Con.

ignored calls for help a a result of lack of flexibility. i estimate the dead rooks (and other coutries) in 5 minutes to be 10 or more. If a field needs help (e.g. 30 bishffies coming in) those that just died should be enough to defend that field, noone needs to auger to get there quick. but rooks prefer to fly their next sortie where they flew the previous one. this can either be because they died and need revenge or it went too well and a sequel is desired.

i usually spend a few minutes in tower before/between flights. and as the voice window shows i'm obviously not the only one. most times there are a few others in the tower, too. in a single tower there are usually to few to get something more or less organized airborn. a briefing channel, transmitted to every player on the ground might help. till then there's a simpler solution: everyone on the ground (not flying or driving or gunning), please switch to the field nearest to HQ, and let's discuss our next sorties in the tower.

missions are undersubscribed because noone wants to join/wait for a mission that wont succeed or even take place because it has to few participants. i've joined almost every mission i've seen over the last month. those 4 or 5 actually had a few players - most of them of the same squad and two or three others. mission channel was almost quiet, communication was probably through squad channel. maybe not always missions intended for public participation, i don't know.
i usually create missions every few days (need that time for frustration about the last mission to cease). on one (1) of those missions one (1) single other player joined. i've no idea what i'm doing wrong. maybe they're just too complicated, at least they don't consist of 30 jabo + goon. or maybe everyone squelched me.

noone gives updates about the situation because noone really knows what is going on. everyone can only see a small part of the world. unless everyone gives updates about what he's doing this won't change. but this is impossible with 200, err max 130 for rooks, players on channel 1. range and room channel can't help because they're limited in range and don't neccessarily reach everyone involved with the same objective. i've posted somthing about that in gameplay forum last week.

2) Why do we seem so unconcerned about the Strategic situation?

i don't think this is the problem. but i think the german translation of "team" (toll, ein anderer machts = terrific, someone else does it) is valid for rooks. it's hard to distinguish from lack of flexibility or communication, though.

[Don]

We have had this arrangement in the recent past, and as Big Dawg said, it will happen again.

The thing that got me pissed one night recently was hearing a dweeb from the bish challenge me to a duel because he saw my ...ahem.. arena rank  Well naturally I let him have it
A shame too, he musta really worked hard to get his ranking under a hundred and had to challenge anyone to a duel so he could make it more important than it was its an old air warrior sickness
My point is, he felt okay about running on that way because he undoubetedly got such hi scores vulching outnumbered Rooks somewhere. The inflated scorews can really work on a persons mind and make em think they are more than they are. This is the only good thing about Rook ineffectiveness. What I have seen is Bish and Nits melt away when we are rolling. They cannot gang or vulch, so they fly higher. When they fly higher, they must come screaming down because that is where the Rooks are, usually down low killing their fields. Inevitably, when they come down, they die.
We just have to look before we act, gather our numbers to take a base and do it. Avoid the center of any map in AH; it only makes us targets for the other two countries. Cover our flanks and keep pressure on the nme, and above all, do it quickly! Why grab to 25k when you will dive down and fight at 7k?
Grab a gooney, and protect it to the target area, and then move on to the next target agreed upon.
Thses things will get us wins; I know because we have done them every time we win; there is no magic to it at all.

[Shane]

missions schmissions, don't need no steeking missions to accomplish stuff.  

bases can be easily taken without the formality of a designed mission (altho' they can be fun, they're kinda hard to set up on the fly as tatical situations change fairly rapidly in MA - not to mention the rooks don't have the luxury of having 45 bajillion dweebs sitting around waiting for a mission to be setup).

personally i don't really give a doodly about the hamstard wheel capture the flag aspect of the game, shrug, maps are maps are maps, nor do i like to play little napoleon - but.....

i do have a clue about how to go about playing hamstard, and i occasionally suggest, yeah, suggest - in lil non-capped words - how hitting such and such base might ease pressure on some other base and tactical stuff like that. doesn't bother me if no one listens, and i find it amusing to see capslock screaming napoleons looking for cannon fodder for their ill-conceived strategies.

having said that, you'll often see me alone, deep in enemy airspace, popping goons, bouncing alting buffs who went to grab a cuppajoe, forcing 2,3,4 enemy fighters to deal with me instead of merrily alting toward the base they're heading to and the like (i hate flying around furballs simply because of the fps hit i take).

yeah i even do quite a bit of jabo work and will often have a city fairly much whacked and rdy to take if only 1 or 2 more ftrs and a goon were already on the way, before that base's defense gets organized, and these aren't bases way out on the fringes, but rather a base that if taken, would provide a foothold for further offenses or distract some bishknit offense at a rook base.

the best defense is a good offense. you won't see me hanging very close to our own front lines.  get behind 'em, hit 'em en route while they're blissfully alseep in SA land.

the most amusing thing i see (every country does it) is a base being defended, you have a buncha friendlies come in with alt, dive down to kill the vulchers - that conga lline thingy - and end up getting whacked by more inbound baddies, and allowing those baddies to drop their ord in peace, and *then* whack the friendlies who got sucked in low.

if the enemy is already over the base, IT'S TOO LATE!!!  ignore them, they're light, low and practically useless, stay up, over fly and catch the ones that are still en route. at  the least, you'll force them to dump ord to engage you, or pop a buff before it  has a chnace to drop, or even blow thru a buncha lazy/ignorant/blind escorts and pop goons (like i love doing).

by tying up the enemy *away* from their objective, you allow for better defenses to be formed, and pretty much put a crimp on that offensive.

>

[bowser]

"...'Course, I forwarded this idea before- all strat guys go to Bishops, furballers to Rooks, etc. ...".

I like it!  Furballers only in rookland.  We'll never win a reset, but who cares.  

bowser

[Don]

>>

Hehe,  

[airmess]

i'm bish, since i started AH. from time to time i switch to another country on a daily base to fly with friends of the other side and to get a image of  how they act.

the main difference i've seen is, that in bishland members overview the activities of the entire map and act in groups before it's too late ... to turn from the defensive into a offensive position.

another factor are the mission we do, which i admit are very effective and good planed.

last but not least ... it's my opinion ... is that we watch a bit more to eachothers "6" and help, if and run for help .. .even without being called and dont act selfish in most cases.

i hope HT is considering those country issues maybe by introducing the new maps.

airmess

[Kieran]

It is bound to dawn on you guys sooner or later that people behave the way they do in the arena because it is precisely what they want to do- and they have the venue in which to do it.

After that epiphany it might also become obvious HTC doesn't need to do anything about it, because as stated above people are doing what they want to do in an arena that allows it.

Then it is possible you might see if the MA is to have alternative it has to occur outside the MA. If it is a great idea for the masses, they will populate the arena. If not, they won't.

So many people have to legislate away their free time in an effort to quantify their fun. Let me give you a clue; if you have to check numbers to ascertain whether or not you are having fun, chances are you aren't. My opinion of course, but I never met a person focused on his stats that seemed to be having any fun. Talk about a rat race! Not to say stats are bad, but when your flying is all about the numbers I feel you've lost the joy in the game.

There is so much talk of late about HTC setting this kind of map up, HTC needs to force countries to be more strat-minded, etc. Why? ifthat'swhatpeoplewantedtheywoulddoitwithoutthebenefitofHTC'shelp.

So, how do you measure your fun? By checking your stats? By losing yourself for a few precious moments a few hours a week? By organizing the war in a chess-like masterpiece of bold moves, risking all for that glorious, crushing victory? Is it just to pal around with people of a common interest? Is it just to "kill stuff" and take out a little aggression?

There is no "useless" form of play (aside from cheating or playing outside the parameters established by HTC). It is fun for someone or it wouldn't be happening. As awful as it is for some to grasp this salient point, it is nonethless obvious and true.

[Toad]

I see what you mean now Kieran.

Twins?

[Saintaw]

Well, I fly Rook when I'm on my own & numbers are realy sloped and I noticed one thing:

Walking into Rookland is like walkin in a ghost town, verry little communication on channel two, or Vox (compared to the constant blabering of nits I s'pose)

Of course CavemanJ talks loud enough for everyone, but that's another story

[Beegerite]

Do this!  Think of every war movie you've ever seen.  Think about everything you know about real world fighter tactics.  Think of every word that describes these things.  Do a page search on this entire thread for any of them and you'll not find one single reference to the way real world fighter pilots win battles.  You will find pieces of words e.g. wing tactics will bring up Widewing's nick but that's it bunky.  The reason there are problems in Rooklandia and for that matter in Bish and Nitland is because very very very few people in here are willing to put the effort in to fly a simulation of military combat and use the kind of tactics which work in the real world.  Wing Tactics, Discipline, Following Orders?  Forget it, you're not going to force anyone who just spent a day working for some j.o. to take one more instruction from anyone.  How do I know?  I've tried.  I put together a squadron whose charter says things like "always fly with a wingman"  We're expected to return to base when a wingman is shot down to join up again.  Wanna know how many times that happens?  Does anyone know what kind of planning goes into a bombing raid?  How many times do we arrive over target and nobody has any idea what the figgin base looks like, where the hangars are etc. etc.  Oh yes, just like 12 O'Clock High or Memphis Belle.  Lots of lack of planning.  

That's it in a nutshell.  No real life military tactics in a combat simulation.  What's the solution?  Find people who are willing to work towards a goal using real life tactics and let the others play anyway they want to.  My feeling is that one squad made up of 10 disciplined pilots is worth a whole nation of unorganized rabble.

I keep searching for the Grail

Beeg

[Preon1]

Beeg, real world military tactics takes daily training.  It takes expertise.  That's why the USAF practices war and doctrine even if there's no war to fight.  Pulling off a controlled air campaign is impossible given our constraints.  The best we can hope for is a little cooperation, good communication, a few really good sticks in the formation.

[lazs2]

kieran... ever feel like you are saying something quite simple over and over and people are responding to something you never even said?

I agree with you..  everyone who feelds that rooks aren't the team spirited folks that they long to lead.... should change countries and leave us alone.
lazs

[popeye]

Beeg,

Do this! Think of every war movie you've ever seen. Think about everything you know about real world fighter tactics. Think of every word that describes these things.

Are any of those words, "fun"?