How about a common-sense scoring system

[Widewing]

By the way, sometimes it is more fun generating heat, rather than light. Nothing personal, just a little jesting at other's expense.

My regards,

Widewing

[Ogun]

Oh well now that you put me in my place I apologize.  You are correct.  Aren't you always?

[lazs2]

wide... i think it is obvious to everyone by now who suffers from the self esteem problem.

I studied the pacific campaign a little in my spare time and fail to see how the battle of midway had anything to do with parity.   guadalcanal didn't seem to be about parity either...  I fail to see how any of this has to do with the main arena in AH tho..  

People in Ah all have different agendas... Yes, shock of shocks, somtimes their agenda my even differ from yours.  this is a game that everyone pays an equal amount to play.  Some have hours upon hours to spend and are, like yoursellf, anal and full of self importance... or if you prefer.... knowledgable and born leaders..  Doesn't really matter.   Those who are in it to simply have fun and get some relief from the day to day grind for an hour or so  are paying the same money as you are.

Look... I don't mind that you are hovering at alt above the furball waiting for some poor sap to get tangled up so you can blast em but quit ur whinin that you ain't getting enough credit for it.   I think your getting too much.   Hell... when you do get good... someone besides you will be saying so.

oh... and leviathn is fun to fight I have had a lot of good fights with him.    
lazs

[Ogun]

Well now we know your background and that you are very important.  Widewing, how old are you?  You come across as 14 or so but the 30 years or whatever of naval avaition training (ooh, aah) doesn't jive with that pubescent number.

Anyhoo, I don't film ma much and I don't record all the dates that you are biotching about something because my hard drive isn't big enough.  Fiction?  I love it; written a few books already.  Therapy?  Do you have training in that too?  What if I told you I were trained in Air Force Aviation and Psychology; would that impress you?  Not to say that I was, but hey, my worthiness isn't proved by ye olde pee contest, so you and your ego can relax.  Imagine that you really are smarter than everyone else and that your ideas should be accepted by the masses.

I mean, what is wrong with all of these people who disagree with you?  Shame on them!  How dare they.  Send us all for counseling, and your life will be much better.

You do indeed twist it, turn in, and paint it all the right colors for your specific need at the time.  Facts don't matter; the only heat your generating is the hot air out of your windpipe and if you think I fly around with "shoot me" painted on my plane I'd be happy to meet you in the TA and school you a little.  No, wait, your ego would implode.  

[airhap]

You are cursed.

airhap

[Pongo]

I think that the way it works now is better then the change proposed by widewing.
We dont fly in integrated squadrons with millions of ground troops to witness our kills nor all the other infastructure to confirm kills. Yet his proposal would relly on these things or fail to give a kill.

In my mind the pilot that damages an aircraft nearly to collaps has accomplished more then the pilot that adds the last straw.
Widewing doenst know if the damage he inflicted is in the exact same spot as the previos damage. If it is then the absence of the previos damage might have relagated his to the mere damage that he seems to despise.

In the absence of all the infastructure to support the system used by the USAAF in ww2...what we have is better....
I just wish that crippling damage rewarded the kill and further damage to the destroyed ac did not have the chance to transfer credit.
1/3rd and 1/2 kills are for counties that do not have target rich enviroments...In AH it seems unneccasary.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by lazs2
wide... i think it is obvious to everyone by now who suffers from the self esteem problem.

I studied the pacific campaign a little in my spare time and fail to see how the battle of midway had anything to do with parity.   guadalcanal didn't seem to be about parity either...  I fail to see how any of this has to do with the main arena in AH tho..  

lazs

Apparently, you studied it very little. Midway was a defensive fight, a huge gamble. Guadalcanal was also defensive in nature. Midway contained the Japanese in the central Pacific, Guadalcanal contained them in the South Pacific. Both actions were initiated to prevent the Japanese from gaining important strategic positions. Both battles were won by the barest of margins and good fortune. We lost nearly every naval engagement at Guadalcanal. The few we did win came at tremendous cost. We came a hair's breath from losing at Midway. Essentially, these were spoiling attacks, limited in scope and objective (sound familiar?).

When the U.S. had achieved parity in the Pacific, they secured their grasp on the territory they occupied. Once they had the edge in manpower and material, then they began offensive operations. Everything up till that point was containment.

I suggest several required reading books, including Morrison's Two Ocean War, Walter Boyne's Clash of Titans and Eric Bergerud's Fire in the Sky. You wouldn't like Walt or Eric, being men of letters and natural leaders, they would only become focal points for your resentment. However, their works are worth the risk to your delicate self-image. All will be in your local library.

Widewing

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Pongo
I think that the way it works now is better then the change proposed by widewing.
We dont fly in integrated squadrons with millions of ground troops to witness our kills nor all the other infastructure to confirm kills. Yet his proposal would relly on these things or fail to give a kill.

In my mind the pilot that damages an aircraft nearly to collaps has accomplished more then the pilot that adds the last straw.
Widewing doenst know if the damage he inflicted is in the exact same spot as the previos damage. If it is then the absence of the previos damage might have relagated his to the mere damage that he seems to despise.

In the absence of all the infastructure to support the system used by the USAAF in ww2...what we have is better....
I just wish that crippling damage rewarded the kill and further damage to the destroyed ac did not have the chance to transfer credit.
1/3rd and 1/2 kills are for counties that do not have target rich enviroments...In AH it seems unneccasary.

Pongo, you may be right. However, my point was this, regardless of how much damage someone does to an aircraft, if it lands safely it was for naught. I believe that when that aircraft escapes its attacker, gets beyond visual range of the enemy, it is now a viable kill target for the next enemy that comes along. Why? Because if it doesn't get killed, no one gets credit. As it is, the software remembers who hit it before and how much damage they did. That is unrealistic.

However, feel free to disagree. Discussion is good. Maybe there are better ideas, but we won't know until people present them.

My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

Substandard reply Ogun, you can shoot back better than that. Try harder.

By the way, Every Sunday night, 9 PM EDT, I'm in the TA training squad members. Feel free to drop by. Last week we worked on two on one and two on two ACM. We will likely continue this again. Squadies get to try shooting me down. They're getting better, 'cause I was having to work a lot harder at staying alive. At the rate they're going, I''ll be in deep bandini Sunday. I'm sure the CO would let you join in the fun, a guest "expert" would be welcome. See you there.

My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

Originally posted by AKIron
Widewing, you were robbed. Definitely WotW material here.

Implementation of your idea would most certainly cause more whining about kill stealing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Tell me about it. I feel Rude is snubbing me

Now I know how Spielberg feels...

My regards,

Widewing

[Hooligan]

Every time I think you can't prove yourself to be more of a pompous bellybutton you outdo yourself Widewing.  I am truly amazed.

Hooligan

[Ogun]

Substandard reply; if you say so.  That's kind of like saying "That bullet didn't hurt, can you shoot me again?"

Nah, I'll let you suffer

My squad and I do pairs training too; I get shot down lots and I can only hope to be as good as most of them are someday, but take a line and put at the beginning "horrible pilot, never gets a kill" and at the other end "the best pilot, never gets killed and kills others at will" and you placed me waaaaay down on that lower end saying that I have a target on my back or whatever saying "shoot me."  Now you contend that I'm claiming to be an expert.  Is your world one of only extremes?  

I will gladly take you on one on one; I'll win or lose, and you'll say what you want, but that target that says "shoot me" will be a bit harder for you to read than you might suppose.  At the root of all this, you are a close-minded ahole with a need for control that you don't have.  Hey, you got your WWII history in order; you've figured out all the right angles, numbers, systems and scores.

Make a game to compete with AH there hero.  I'd enjoy reading the feasibility study, watching the failure,  and the ensuing bankruptcy hearing

At any rate, I think the saddest part of this whole scenario is that you would have some outstanding ideas if only you'd picked up somewhere the education in diplomacy (and actually used it).

And I hope you remember, you struck first.  And if you think rank doesn't matter (and perhaps it doesn't) then maybe you should have HTC change the ranking system too.  It's all screwed up huh.  I mean, as of this writing my rank is 195 and yours is 654.  That can't be right.  Can't be.

[Pongo]

Widewing
you seem to be saying that you favour rewarding chance over actual accomplishment in our game.
The real accomplishment in ww2 was killing the enemy pilot or destroying his airframe. Because both were expensive to replace.
In our game those things are meaningless. So it is ok I think to award the real measure of success..did you hit the enemy aircraft and how much.
In the cases where two or more pilots hit an aircraft it seems ok to me to award the kill to the person that did the most towards that kill.
Its just a game thing..but this is just a game.
Certainly the system as is falls within the realm of common sense..
Just say it and see if it sounds sensible.
"The person that hurts an enemy the most gets credit for the kill"
sort of sounds common sensible to me anyway.

Now try this one.
"After a plane is crippled, an until then uninvolved friendly aircraft can shoot the crippled plane enough to get the kill themselves."

doesnt make sense to me...

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Pongo
doesnt make sense to me...

I am telling y'all, what we need is a more rewarding assists as Badboy already pointed out.  This thread wouldn't have started in the first place if it was.

As for the rest, I would say that is in the future... probably AH2.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Ogun


At any rate, I think the saddest part of this whole scenario is that you would have some outstanding ideas if only you'd picked up somewhere the education in diplomacy (and actually used it).

And I hope you remember, you struck first.  And if you think rank doesn't matter (and perhaps it doesn't) then maybe you should have HTC change the ranking system too.  It's all screwed up huh.  I mean, as of this writing my rank is 195 and yours is 654.  That can't be right.  Can't be.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I was just playing the role of boy genius/wiseass, and I clearly carried it too far. My apologies to you and the rest. One of these days I'll learn to stuff a sock in it, and at my age (old fart), I had better learn soon. Really, I had no cause to pull your chain in such a manner.
Sometimes what one thinks is funny, is really hurtful instead.

Again, I apologize for being the amazinhunk you so accurately described.

My wife has complained for years that I am a "perfectionist". Well, if she's correct, and I deliberately behave like an amazinhunk... That can only mean one thing....

I would be happy to play tag in the TA. It would be fun, and I'd be content to fly the Zeke too.

As to scoring, I appreciate that a lot of folks put their stock into it. However, it is not an accurate measurement of skills by itself. This is because many don't fly bombers, or fighters, or bother with vehicles. So their scores reflect a higher ranking due to that very large default number inserted into the calculation. I prefer to examine the Stat page, where only kills and deaths (real deaths, not discos) are counted. I can learn more from the Stats than from the Score page. If we look at Leviathn's score for the last tour, he was ranked 1433. That certainly does not reflect his skill level, and he is easily one of the top 5 pilots in this game in terms of skill. It merely reflects the fact that he doesn't do anything other than fly fighters and the occasional attack mission.

I fly only fighters, but with a much greater emphasis on attack missions. I'll grab an Osty to defend a capped field now and then, which is largely responsible for pulling my ranking down to the 600 range. Otherwise, it would be up in the 900s. Your ranking indicates that you are doing a little bit of everything. Keep it up and you might break into the top 100. I get bored with bombers, tanks and PTs. So, I avoid them, and my ranking reflects that.

Let me conclude with this: Hooligan is correct, I have behaved like a pompous ass, and I can accept the public spanking for doing so.

Perhaps we can revisit some of the issues with the scoring system and see if we can reach some consensus on the specific things people find troubling with it.

My regards,

Widewing