D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA

[AKSWulfe]

Yes, but with the D9 you get out of gun range much faster than with a P38 or SpitIX.

I've done it many times, I just keep my speed above 250MPH and disengage when the situation is not favorable.
-SW

[MANDOBLE]

çSWulfe, much faster doesn't imply much safer.
If the goal is just to negate a guns solution to the enemy, D9 could flee by speed, spit will negate it by turning. The Spit, while turning, is a real danger for the attacker. It has impressive guns lethality, guns range and snapshot capability. It can invert its course in a second and try to HO you or track you in a climb and score a single deadly ping.

In the other hand, the D9, when running, is absolutelly inoffensive to the attacker.

[AKSWulfe]

Yes, assuming the D9 pilot is dumb enough to fly in a straight path.

You can manuever in the same direction you are fleeing by adjusting the direction very little or by going into a very slow turn- one that barely changes your direction initially but if you stay in the turn will eventually pull your flight path about 15-20 degrees off course.

I'm beginning to see what the problem is, you don't take the appropriate measures to ensure that the plane pursuing you does not have a guns solution on you when you are fleeing.
-SW

[MANDOBLE]

Of course, I'm assuming the D9 will not fly in a straight path. But this is not going to save you if the pursuer fills up the sky with hispano bullets unless you have already a big speed advantage or a good separation from the first moment and are able to flee from the death cone in less than 4 or 5 seconds.
But if you read all my previous post you'll see that the point is not only to flee. The D9 will loose its offensive possition if it wants simply to flee by speed while the Spit will have a chance to kill you even in defensive.

[AKSWulfe]

Well it all depends on your defintion of defensive.

You can't very well always be on the offensive in any plane. I have, many times, forced myself from the defensive to the offensive by flying in a style that no one expects from a 190.

The Spitfire only has as much a chance to kill you when it's on the defensive as you have a chance to kill it when you're on the offensive. In other words- if you don't let him shoot you then it's all a moot point. He'll burn away his energy and speed trying to go for a shot that you'll easily deny him and in the end you zoom up, and go back down to kill him.

Now this is all hypothetical and moot, in practice I can do anything I want with the D9. It's all about analyzing the situation you're in, and forcing the plane(s) you are fighting against into positions they are not familiar with or do not expect.

You are arguing hypothetical points, and hypothetically, you are correct.

But in the MA where it's more fluid and dynamic, guessing the various encounters you can come up with are endless and thus you must change your tactics accordingly.

It's not about a set standard of rules that makes the SpitfireIX any more deadly, efficient or invincible than the D9- it's about how you fly it and bring the fight to the enemy.
-SW

[MANDOBLE]

SWulfe, this is an historical day cause I agree with you: "flying in a style that no one expects from a 190". That says all.

[Tac]

"P38 can climb away from a spitfire mkIX when using wep"

Er.. no. This is the one thing you must NEVER do when having a spit on your 6. The spit will simply level off and wep and catch you. Why? 38 may climb better, but it wont outclimb a hail of 50 cal and 20mm bullets. Spits level and get to d900 of you then they start their own climb, getting to d600 and firing. They wont stay in range for long, but they just level again and repeat till they ping you to death. This outclimbing thing MAY work above 20k, but below, not a fat chance in hell.

This is vs spitIX of course.

"P38 just need enough "performance" to put his nose at up to 1 km of the target."

Partly true. However, the 50 cals dont do any serious damage past d650. I've pinged a con at d900 so many times it seemed to glow. No damage to it. And this is with the "alleged" nose guns in 38 hitting in a tight spot. The only time a 38 guns deal damage at long ranges is when the target is showing its planform to you, aka, a 109g10 zooming up, it gets to d900 from you, 38 about to stall, the 109 begins to flip over to come down, 38 fires a LOT of bullets and hits it and snaps its wing off. If this had been a rear aspect shot, nothing wouldve happened. But since it hit from a "top" view, the wings get sliced off. And even this requires you shoot off at leasy 800 rnds and hit with about 100 or 150 of them.

"With D9 you need enough "performance" to put your nose at up to 400 yards of the target."

With the d9's performance thats extremely easy.

"In the other hand, if you want to flee from a P38 you need enough "performance" to put your plane 1 km away of the P38."

True. However, read the above, you will know not to give your planform. If you dont I can ping your bellybutton all I want and not damage you.

"If you want to flee from a D9, more than 400 yards are enough. Now add guns lethality and snapshot capability to the equation."

But the question is, WHAT planes can actually FLEE from a d9? Only ones I can think of are the tiffie, the g10, the la7 and the pony . And only the tiffie and la7 can actually do it without diving or having to fly relatively level to gain speed.

[MANDOBLE]

Tac, I've beet cut in half several times at D1.2 by P38 and with only few pings, I assume these were 20mm pings.

For the D9, being at 400 yards or less from the target doesnt guarantee any deadly hit.

[lazs1]

So what is really needed is a very fast LW plane with hispanos and fifties that will turn like a spit and climb like a G10 while still being small and able to warp roll like a 190 but carry 4,000 lbs of bombs?  A little range wouldn't hurt either.

I'm sure such a plane existed it is simply that HTC (and all the other sims) refuses to model it.   I mean... If LW planes were so bad they wouldn't have won the war.
lazs

[Hristo]

Sorry, I didn’t take time to read every post here.

To me (considering myself as mostly a 190 driver) D-9 is a gift from heaven.

After 9 months of AH apstinence, I played in tour 17, D-9 most of the time. Guess what – a 50+ kill streak !! And who got me after 50 kills ? A PT boat, lol.

I could never do that in any other plane. And arena had La7s and Tempests !

It was like a drug sometimes  . Being able to constantly BnZ Nikis and Spits, dismantling them with deflection shots from 450 mph passes - now that's a plane.

I don’t know how other late war stuff compares to D-9, but I do know how it compares to 190A series. It is a killer.

[MANDOBLE]

LOL Hristo, its true, you have not read the thread
 

[Tac]

"Tac, I've beet cut in half several times at D1.2 by P38 and with only few pings, I assume these were 20mm pings"

Highly unlikely it was a 20mm. And as I said above, it mustve been from a planform shot. Ive yet to kill ANYTHING from any other aspect when firing that far away.

[Japanx]

I never judge a plane.
Pilot is important to it's maneuvers.
That D9... well... may be a newbie?  

[Karnak]

What MANDOBLE seems to be saying is that K/T is the only real measure of an aircraft's usefulness in the MA because we all have infinite lives, yet not infinite time.  Therefore the aircraft with the best K/T are the war winners and thus the ones that should be perked.

I disagree for a few resons.

1) The real "war winners", IMHO, are the multi-role aircraft like the P-38L, P-47D-30, F4U-1D, P-51D and F6F-5.  You have to be able to kill what is on the ground as well as what is in the air.

2) I feel that MANDOBLE's system puts far too high a value on winning the war.  Many (most?) players are only trying to win the war as a secondary goal.  Their primary goals are to fly aircraft they like and be successful with them.  Personal success is most often defined by ones K/D, not ones K/T.

3) The two best aircraft (I'm guessing here) for K/T are probably the Spitfire MkIX and the N1K2-J.  Neither of these aircraft would be terribly successful at landing their perk price should they be perked.  Low time players, such as myself, would therefor be forced into the free speed demons, or the "I know its suicide, but I like the aircraft so I use it anyways" planes.  I personally would like the MA a whole hell of a lot less if the most common aircraft were P-51Ds, Bf109G-10s, La-7s, Typhoons and Fw190D-9s.

[Kieran]

I agree with you in concept, Karnak. I would add though that I have been enjoying 4-6 kills per sortie in the 190A5, and I only started taking it up in the last week (not even a week yet). 3/4's a tank of gas, and I often land with 1/2 gas in the tank. It isn't just the planes mentioned that can kill quickly, which is what makes perking based on K/T such a dangerous proposition.