Author Topic: Serious question (Read 2501 times)

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #45 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:07:49 PM »

I was replying against the idea of fly what you want. That idea implies no perk system, no overusage argument, no jet argument, no year argument, just fly what you want cause else you'll have your freedom killed.

Ok, I want to fly 262 cause it is in the game, and you cant force me to fly props when I like to fly jets, and so on, unperk it ...

All of you thinking that asking to perk planes to balance the planeset usage is just a dictatorship move against you, think about the 262 example, or are you going to be dictator enough to keep it perked to me?

dtango, what is performance for you? turning? diving? climbing? hi speed control? low speed control? roll rate? acceleration? top speed at lo level? top speed at hi alt? E retention? armament? range? AG capability? stall speed? number of engines? visibility? durability? The sum of the above? Which order?

Actually, it is generalized to consider top speed (at some alt) the only factor, and IMO this is a big mistake.

Sikboy · « **Reply #46 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:14:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
I was replying against the idea of fly what you want. That idea implies no perk system, no overusage argument, no jet argument, no year argument, just fly what you want cause else you'll have your freedom killed.

Ok, I want to fly 262 cause it is in the game, and you cant force me to fly props when I like to fly jets, and so on, unperk it ...

All of you thinking that asking to perk planes to balance the planeset usage is just a dictatorship move against you, think about the 262 example, or are you going to be dictator enough to keep it perked to me?

dtango, what is performance for you? turning? diving? climbing? hi speed control? low speed control? roll rate? acceleration? top speed at lo level? top speed at hi alt? E retention? armament? range? AG capability? stall speed? number of engines? visibility? durability? The sum of the above? Which order?

Actually, it is generalized to consider top speed (at some alt) the only factor, and IMO this is a big mistake.

Do you have anything to address the newly provided information that contradicts your claims as to the overusage of the Spit? If not, then I guess that's case closed now isn't it?

-Sikboy

dtango · « **Reply #47 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:22:29 PM »

Flying what you want doesn't imply that a perk system is not in place to keep relative aircraft performance in balance. There is sufficient reason to keep things "fair" from this perspective.

On the otherhand, your original answer to Mathman is that you care what others fly because this is boring to you. Mine and Nifty's reply was that changing the balance of game play to what you find less boring by reducing the numbers of La-7's, Spits, and N1K2's is dictating to others what you think the arena should look like because of your preference. The difference is that you want to perk to change the game play to your preference while the current perk system is intended to keep the game balanced from a relative aircraft performance standpoint.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Nifty · « **Reply #48 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:30:35 PM »

Actually, unperk them all and see what the usage would be for a tour. I'd have absolutely nothing against a totally free tour.

To argue the point though... Yes, I am that much of a dictator, actually HTC is. I am not for the fly ANY thing you want principle. I want the Me262 perked, and the other high performance monster rides as well. F4U-1C? I dunno, but HTC thought it was "everywhere". I bet if you disable it from carriers and unperk it, it's usage wouldn't be nearly as bad as it was before it was perked.

Obviously the Spit IX, Spit V, Seafire, and Spit I are not perked for their performance issues. The world will laugh at you if you think 1942 and earlier planes should be perked on their performance.

So we can only compare the perking of the Spitfires to the perking of the F4U-1C. Comparing it to any other perk ride is comparing apples and oranges. Not one of the Spit variants has ever come close to the kill % of the F4U-1C (which we can use as HTC's bar for perking on usage stats.) Only if you combined all the Spits do you get the F4U-1C kill %. In this tour, the Spit usage has dropped off on its own. You'd be suggesting to perk a plane (Spit IX) that has just 7.65% of the kills, just over 1/3 of what it took to get the CHog perked. Hmm, let's just change SPIT to be SPIT9, SPIT5, SEAFR, SPIT1. Then you won't see so many SPIT tags.

dtango · « **Reply #49 on:** June 03, 2002, 03:46:16 PM »

For me relative performance advantage goes to the plane that has the higher probability to get kills without getting killed. A combination of characteristics can be combined to give an aircraft this ability relative to others. For me these characteristics can be generalized in the following rank (1) top level speed, (2) best rate of climb, (3) turn performance and (4) air-to-air armament. The aircraft that has more of the above combinations and is better in these categories relative to other aircraft have a lot more options to him to dictate the fight vs. his foes.

But we are talking about relative aircraft performance. Mandoble- your original answer to Mathman's question was that you care what others fly because the numbers make it boring. With the above line of thought related to performance are you changing your answer?

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

SlapShot · « **Reply #50 on:** June 03, 2002, 04:59:34 PM »

It seems like every "furball" I see, there are plenty of 190s hovering high and doing the "cherrypicker" routine. They are a hard plane to catch and deadly if flown right (as is any other plane).

I decided to take the 190 up for a few flights to see what it can and can't do. Didn't like it, not my kind of plane, but those few rides clued me into the failure points of this plane and I remebered these. Now when I see a 190, I know how to avoid them and if they make a mistake, I know how to kill them. I had 24 kills of the 190 vs. 4 deaths by 190s last tour.

Maybe if mandoble and all the other whiners actually flew the planes that they wish to regulate, they might get a clue on what their true failings are, and learn to take advantage of them.

I prefer, as well as others, to TnB (actually I prefer JABO), while many others prefer to BnZ, but why don't we hear from the TnB crowd to PERK the BnZ planes? Its not fair that they drop out of the sky at +400 mph ... take a shot and extent D 4.0 out to start the process all over again ... waaaaaa !!!!

Also, if there are so MANY spitfires down low TnBing, wouldn't that make it a target rich environment for the BnZer ? It should be like shootin' fish in a barrel ... right ?

If you want to regulate what plane(s) that I will fly, then I will gladly give you my PayPal Id and when the $15 deposit is made into my account, I will fly whatever you want.

Karnak · « **Reply #51 on:** June 03, 2002, 07:18:03 PM »

There is no Spit/N1K/La7 endless furball principal in AH.

Those that see one are seeing what they want to see. They thrive on whining.

Everytime I play I see lots of variety, including Spits, N1Ks and La-7s.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #52 on:** June 03, 2002, 07:50:24 PM »

The reply to your post and the reply to math are different things. Math asked why to be concerned about others fly, you supported a perk system based only in "performance", two very different "topics".

funkedup · « **Reply #53 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:03:13 PM »

Quote

Why do some people care what others fly? I don't get it.

We care, just like a duelist who shows up with an air pistol and realizes his opponent has an M249 and body armor.

Given equal skills, the guy with the better weapon will almost always win. If you choose to use a crappy weapon, then your chance of success depends greatly on what weapon your opponent chooses. That's why we care about what other people fly.

Fatty · « **Reply #54 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:19:32 PM »

Because it makes it much easier to draw from the list of prepared excuses.

Tac · « **Reply #55 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:29:02 PM »

exactly funked.

I can compare the AH situation to what the Japanese Samurai faced when the Europeans brought guns.

On one side there was the Samurai class : Born from a priviledged family/caste (aka good nutrition and education when a child for the most part), trained and drilled to kill since childhood.. end result was a superb soldier, deadly with his hands, feet, bow, spear and blade.

On the other side you had the Ashigaru. Or Peasant soldiers. Born from the lowest class of society, Ignorant in both education and warfare. The Samurai class used them as pawns, mere rabble to butcher and act as meat shields. BUT once guns came in, a wimpy retarded farmer could be plucked from the rice fields, trained in using a gun in less than a week and this peasant would have a damn good chance of killing a Samurai. In fact, they killed so many that the samurai leaders eventually had to resort to using mostly guns in their armies. As SHOGUN:ME put it in their intro movie, a samurai narrating : "(after guns changed warfare).. I now desire victory more than honour.."

And in AH we have a similar issue. One group is skilled and is able to fly a wide variety of AC and generally stick to the few they personally like. Another group is the skilless (newbies or powergamers) that dont have a clue about ACM and get creamed by everyone, including themselves, when they take off.

Then the Sheep come and give them "certain" planes that allows them to come to equal terms with the skilled group just by the perfomance of said planes.No particular effort needed to succeed in them. ACM becomes irrelevant. And of course, the sheep make it widely avaliable and the battlefield becomes clogged with them.

Until it came to such a point where the skilled group HAS to fly said "certain" planes or limit their choice of other planes in order to be able to fight off the hordes of dweebshigaru's.

Fatty · « **Reply #56 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:36:51 PM »

Quote

Until it came to such a point where the skilled group HAS to fly said "certain" planes or limit their choice of other planes in order to be able to fight off the hordes of dweebshigaru's.

Not if they are as skilled as they claim to be. Certainly not when they can still outrun any of the bullets a peasant can fire.

Fester' · « **Reply #57 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:43:48 PM »

Sounds kinda hypocritial to me.

You have a choice of what to fly. Fly it and dont squeak if someone kills you because you brought a knife to a gun fight.

Personally I like the fact that there is a wide range of planes and skill levels in the game. I love killing a better plane in my lesser plane simply because I outflew the other guy. If it were not for this opportunity I would quickly become bored with the game.

Mathman · « **Reply #58 on:** June 03, 2002, 09:59:55 PM »

I think most of you know why I asked this. I was curious as to what drove a lot of the threads and whines in this game/board.

I do care about what the other guy flies in terms of how I approach fighting him, but I could care less about his choice of plane. Don't know if that makes any sense.

Toad · « **Reply #59 on:** June 03, 2002, 10:27:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Then the Sheep come and give them "certain" planes that allows them to come to equal terms with the skilled group just by the perfomance of said planes.No particular effort needed to succeed in them. ACM becomes irrelevant.

In this statement, the "allows them to come to equal terms with the skilled group" and the "ACM becomes irrelevant" statements vie with each other to claim the title of "Most Incorrect Assessment In The Entire Thread".

It's just to close to call, however.

In my humble opinion, of course.