Author Topic: Serious question (Read 2942 times)

Tac · « **Reply #195 on:** June 05, 2002, 01:57:57 PM »

"But, most likely, NONE of us have ever filmed our last 5 hours in the MA and gone back counting the enemy icons to see what we actually DID see. We just have a perception."

Hehe, lemme post a of what I see tonight in the MA. I usually see spit-spit-spit-spit-spit-spit-la7-la7-n1k-n1k-109-109-190-la7-spit-p51-109-spit-p51-la7-n1k-n1k as I fly above and through a furball.

Edit: just saw Deja's kill stats.. looking at the total k/d stats of the non-perked spits..

Spit1 909 2849
SpitIX 36125 34513
Spit V 15606 16840
Seafire 12104 12836

64744 kills 67038 deaths

Pick a middle point and you have 65k of spit or so.

Now go through the stats of other planes (add up 109s, 190s and f4us as if they were one) and tell me if ANY come close to that.

Thats a LOT of spits compared with the rest from where I see it. Its a plague I tell you

Tac · « **Reply #196 on:** June 05, 2002, 02:02:23 PM »

you cant up spitV from carrier though nifty. And its performance is worse than the V from what ive experienced.

Kieran · « **Reply #197 on:** June 05, 2002, 02:04:49 PM »

Well, if performance is the issue, why perk the 190A8 but not the A5? Seems to me you have that one backwards, don't you?

Tac · « **Reply #198 on:** June 05, 2002, 02:27:19 PM »

Carrier launched kieren? You want me to perk the only spit that takes off a fleet?

The A5 is the earliest model, so its free. A8 is next model avaliable and its a tad faster and has much better armaments.

Kieran · « **Reply #199 on:** June 05, 2002, 02:58:02 PM »

Consider this, Tac... which aircraft is more capable in an A2A engagement? C'mon, don't even try to tell me it's the A8. Now I believe your proposal is better than others that have been forwarded, but your logic for perking isn't very consistent.

Tac · « **Reply #200 on:** June 05, 2002, 05:21:50 PM »

what logic? just perk any that aint the earliest model in the game. a5 performs better than a8? so what? or a8 better than a5? so what? 5 comes before 8 last time I checked

As far as the seafire not being perked but the V is... well, the seafire is carrier based. Just like i'd say the F4U-D shouldnt be perked because its carrier capable (that or have the F4U-1 be carrier launchable too and then perk the -d hog at 1 perk point).

Toad · « **Reply #201 on:** June 05, 2002, 05:27:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Hehe, lemme post a of what I see tonight in the MA.

Good. Just make sure you don't miscount. IE: Don't count the same Spit on the same sortie twice. Not going to be easy.

Plus you can't skew the data by flying just in one way or area. IE: if you hang out near an enemy carrier, you're going to skew to Seafires, Zero, F6F's and F4U's. If you hang high over a HQ, you'll skew the count towards buffs.

It's not going to be easy to get a "representative" sample.

Edit: just saw Deja's kill stats.. looking at the total k/d stats of the non-perked spits..

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Thats a LOT of spits compared with the rest from where I see it. Its a plague I tell you

You're just coming round the circle in this entire thread's argument here.

"Lots" by what standard? You see it this way, but others don't. For example, I don't see it that way. But there's many ways to measure.

Most importantly, apparently HTC doesn't see it that way.

Kieran · « **Reply #202 on:** June 05, 2002, 05:40:22 PM »

Just curious, what does carrier based have to do with anything?

Kieran · « **Reply #203 on:** June 05, 2002, 06:56:41 PM »

Ok, for argument's sake...

What do you do with the Ki61? The Nikki? Now you have a problem... if you don't perk the Nikki or the Ki61, you have two planes that potentially upset arena balance, and practically guarantee that no one will fly anything but Nikkis. But... the Nikki has no predecessor, therefore does not fall into the formula. Perk by year? No, you've already skewed that.

Have you thought about the A6m5? Should that really be perked, even with an A6m2 available?

Perk the A20G? After all, if we have the Boston I it follows we should perk it.

Yes, I'm being a bit facetious here, but I guess I'm pointing out it isn't as simple as it sounds to perk everything in the manner you spoke of. Personally I'd love it, though, because the 190A5 is my favorite ride, and the setup you've suggested will allow it to be a dominant fighter. Still, it shouldn't be about what is best for me or any one person.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #204 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:03:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
"But, most likely, NONE of us have ever filmed our last 5 hours in the MA and gone back counting the enemy icons to see what we actually DID see. We just have a perception."

I record all of my flights.

Quote

Edit: just saw Deja's kill stats.. looking at the total k/d stats of the non-perked spits..

Spit1 909 2849
SpitIX 36125 34513
Spit V 15606 16840
Seafire 12104 12836

64744 kills 67038 deaths

Did you see how many total kills there were last tour? 477557. The spits accounted for about 13.6% of them. The 190/109s accounted for 45085 kills themselves... a measly 9.4% of the total kills in the MA.

You should stick to Fighter vs Fighter as opposed to all stats. The spits suck against bombers with the Spit IX being the only one to actually hold its own in that role. The LW rides simply pull away there.

None of these numbers aproach the 33% record held by the F4u-1C (all by its lonesome).

AKDejaVu

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #205 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:12:39 PM »

BTW Tac... the top 3 used US fighters account for about 13.9% of total kills in the MA last tour. You're just as likely to see a P-51, P-38 or F6F as any spit. The only difference is that they all have different IDs.

AKDejaVu

Kevin14 · « **Reply #206 on:** June 05, 2002, 07:55:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nifty
Actually, unperk them all and see what the usage would be for a tour. I'd have absolutely nothing against a totally free tour.

To argue the point though... Yes, I am that much of a dictator, actually HTC is. I am not for the fly ANY thing you want principle. I want the Me262 perked, and the other high performance monster rides as well. F4U-1C? I dunno, but HTC thought it was "everywhere". I bet if you disable it from carriers and unperk it, it's usage wouldn't be nearly as bad as it was before it was perked.

Obviously the Spit IX, Spit V, Seafire, and Spit I are not perked for their performance issues. The world will laugh at you if you think 1942 and earlier planes should be perked on their performance. So we can only compare the perking of the Spitfires to the perking of the F4U-1C. Comparing it to any other perk ride is comparing apples and oranges. Not one of the Spit variants has ever come close to the kill % of the F4U-1C (which we can use as HTC's bar for perking on usage stats.) Only if you combined all the Spits do you get the F4U-1C kill %. In this tour, the Spit usage has dropped off on its own. You'd be suggesting to perk a plane (Spit IX) that has just 7.65% of the kills, just over 1/3 of what it took to get the CHog perked. Hmm, let's just change SPIT to be SPIT9, SPIT5, SEAFR, SPIT1. Then you won't see so many SPIT tags.

I like the new SPIt tag idea, also, a lot of the newer people looking for the best plane like to fly spits, thus the kill percentage is not as high as the CHog because of the pilots. My suggestion is to think into the factory bombing idea

Tac · « **Reply #207 on:** June 05, 2002, 08:11:10 PM »

"You should stick to Fighter vs Fighter as opposed to all stats"

Why? Im not putting it in fighter vs XX , but just total kills and deaths. To not count a spit that took off and got nailed by a flaktank would eliminate #'s of spits that actually took off and were seen in the MA. Im not saying spit performs this and that, just that there's a LOT of them

"The only difference is that they all have different IDs."

And they are not the same plane either. So what's your point there?

Kieran: Just like I put the 38F/J in my example, you'd need to have an earlier model in the game to perk it. For arguments sake, if they did this system and n1k/p38/ki61 remain unperked, then their perk gaining ability should be nill. Besides, a n1k or ki61 would be hard pressed fighting the "free" spitv's and zekes and p51b's and la5's. Eventually i'd hope to see the n1k-1 put in. Or alternatively, perk the n1k at 1.5 perks initially because it is a late war model (the last of its series too I think). It worked in the pac CT quite nicely.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #208 on:** June 05, 2002, 08:28:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
"You should stick to Fighter vs Fighter as opposed to all stats"

Why? Im not putting it in fighter vs XX , but just total kills and deaths. To not count a spit that took off and got nailed by a flaktank would eliminate #'s of spits that actually took off and were seen in the MA. Im not saying spit performs this and that, just that there's a LOT of them

No... you're saying that you see alot of them.. then you include their stats from every other vehicle. You are using the total stats for the whole arena to try to prove something you have already admitted is perception.

Quote

"The only difference is that they all have different IDs."

And they are not the same plane either. So what's your point there?

Confused? You listed 4 different planes when grabbing those numbers. Or are you saying all of the different spits are really just one plane?

Perking the Spit because it is the most used is rediculous. You basically set the precident to perk every aircraft that is the most used... wich will be the next one in line.

The C-Hog was not perked because it was the most used... it was perked because it was completely overused. Maybe if you want to get the spit perked.. you could try talking people into flying it until 30% of the MA kills are from spits. But you'd better make sure they all use just one spit to do it.... then move on to the next.

AKDejaVu

poopster · « **Reply #209 on:** June 05, 2002, 09:46:14 PM »

Jeez, I read the whole friggin thing

Nice BBQ, 3 or for separate "give and takes" goin on...likely to continue...

Being new, I fail to see the point of this WHOLE argument.

Spits ?? Niki's, La 7's ???

What exactly is there to fear from any of them ??

If you know there strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly...

Where's the problem ??

If what your really trying to do is to live, you never enter a fight unless it's to your advantage. Not fair...smart

The old quote "Find yourself in a fair fight, you planned wrong"

I can do it for stretches, but in the end, it's pretty boring.

I've been a 190 pilot for the last three years in WB. I chose to fly it because it's got big fuggin guns

and over there it "took some" to learn to tame the beast.

The "uber" plane of choice there is the 51. But I chose.....my choice, not fly it ( except for an occasional sortie ) Flying an A4 vs a 51D late war was a squeak. But ohhhhh were the kills sweet. And I loved late war because of it.

I have found 2 planes over here that I really enjoy. The F4U-1D, the Cannon Hog fails to reach out and touch someone the way 50's do. Fly the 1D like an A4 and have a ball. The Corsair SUCKS in WB. Ask lazs he'll fill ya in

I LOVE that plane.

The other is the Spit IX

Why the Spit IX ?? Because I enjoy finding a boom and zoomer and camp underneath him until he can no longer resist coming down...and see what we can cook up. If he's good, has self control, I'm toast. But me and the Spit have had some REAL good times that way.

All the planes die the same way, personal choice is personal choice.

The uber plane of the minute will change next month. and if the Niki's and La7's are gettin you down, you just aren't using your noodle..

I choose not to use my noodle quite alot...

Have some real good fights that way..