My pet peeve: Ground Vehicles.

[brady]

The ostwind does not nead to reload, it has a tray loading system as the rounds are consumed a new batch are simply laid in the tray, it could fire non stop untill it ran out of ammo or died.

[Samm]

The GV armor model is more complete than the aircraft armor model.

[Urchin]

The issue shouldn't be that the M16 isn't a 'suitable' replacement for the Ostwind.  A 'suitable' replacement means (I guess) one that can kill planes with little or no skill required, kill GVs with little or no skill required, and be the best at killing.. well, anything.  

Lets look at a related issue.  The F4U-1C was either perked because of overusage (20% of plane kills, I believe the figure was), or rarity in real life (200 produced, and I don't think this was the reason).  The reason people used it was because it was the 'best' plane overall.  It required very little skill to get kills in, it could take off from a carrier, and it could carry a fairly sizable load of ordinance.  

It was better for killing GV's than any other plane, it was better for killing buildings than any other plane, and it was at least the equal of any other plane for killing other planes.  It wasn't the BEST at killing other planes, but it was pretty easy, and that made it attractive in addition to the other reasons.  

The Flakpanzer is the best at killing planes (again, with almost no skill required), the best at killing other GVs (see above note), and the best at killing buildings.  Of COURSE people are going to use it... people being human, they look for the path of least resistance.  

As I see it, there are two options.  One, leave the Ostwind as is, and perk it.  Two, make the other ground vehicles more attractive to use.  This can be done in two ways.  One, make the Ostwind much less effective against buildings and armored GVs.  Or, Two, improve the other ground vehicles.  For instance, right now the Ostwind is the best at killing ground vehicles, with the Panzer a very distant second.  This could be resolved by making the Panzer do more damage do other ground vehicles.  The Ostwind is also the best at killing buildings.  This could be resolved by making the Panzer do much more damage to buildings.  

I also think the Panzer's damage model needs to be looked at, as it has been shown that the Panzer really was NOT all that vulnerable to machine-gun and small calibre cannon fire.  I don't feel like finding the posts where this was discussed, suffice it to say that it has been.  

If the Panzer was made more attractive to use in an offensive role, we may see the pattern of a base attack consisting of 10 Ostwinds and 1 M3 change.  

Until then, the Panzer will remain fairly useless, and the only vehicle that may as well be in the game is the Ostwind.

[Voss]

I have 84 kills of Ostwind, and 26 deaths by Ostwind.

Panzer 62:6
Typhoon 9:16 (OUCH!)
Ship Gunner 6:0 (their sitting ducks)
M3 0:2 (go figure)
Ostwind 4:1
M8 0:1 (useless)

In the Panzer I fire HE while standing off from the Ostwind. If you get close enough to the vehicle with an HE round, his track will be disabled and AP can finish him.

[Samm]

The f4u1c is the best at killing GV's ? I guess if you're an idiot that doesn't know how to use bombs and rockets and don't mind dieing straffing AA platforms . It's not even the best f4u for killing dirt targets .

The ostwind is the best at killing other GV's ? What game are you playing ? Here the panzer is still king, if it can see you it can kill you.  The m8's gun has longer range, and it is much faster, The LVT with 75mm also has longer range .

The ostwind is the best at killing buildings. I agree with you here, but it has to get through ack first . And of course for you to be able to kill any buildings the enemy has to let you get to their town/base/factory first .

[brady]

I would hesitate to say the ostwind takes no skill to hit with, I miss a whole heck of a lot before I get a hit and the planes I kill more often than do somting stupid befoe I get them.

 And realy if you think about it the osty is firing 250 rounds to kill a hanger, thats a lot of ammo almost 25% of it's load, it takes time to do this, time some watchfull Jabo can paste u in.

 I shuder to think what 250 37mm osty rounds would do to a ALbertsons if I went postal and unloaded on the front of the store one day....

 Lets say you hit a panzer like 20 times in the side with all that HE, it would reake havoc on the tank, even hiting the front repedadly could damage the gun.

 Urchin man the point is this take the osty away and will have unchecked killing of helpless GV's. Perking even at low levals has a drastic impact on unit usage, it would have a catastofic impact on gameplay, unles your intent is to remove something is presenting a chalenge to you, Man you are one of the Best fighter piolets I have ever sean, you can get the kill the osty thing down:)

 The C hog is a nocomparable issue, the issue at hand is the impact on gameplay removing the osty will have.

 Making the 75 mm HE rounds on the Panzer more efective is a good Idea, but I think the root of the problem i how HTC asigns a weight value to the millimeter equivelency of the rounds in the game.
 
 Case in point, Heinkel told me he tested that it took 250 30mm MK 108 rounds to kill a hanger, It takes around 250 37mm rounds to kill a Hanger, that 37mm Ost round is consederably bigger.

 The base problem is that Panzer cant fire it larger rounds out fast enough.

 So I sugest you learn to Kill the Osty, I can, Voss can certainly Kill the osty we should maybe think of Perking him, he seams a bit UBER:)

[Pooh21]

Yep Brady is right tray loading never run outta ammo. The rounds comes striaght from the replicator( is that a star trek trademark?)
and on to the tray as long as replicator has power you got ostie bullets. I had one spray from 2.5 disable my tank, and keep spraying for 5+ minutes!!!! nonstop!

[SKurj]

Samm... NO gv in AH has to get through any acks.  They can all kill acks from a range at which they do not shoot back (exception being manned ack)

Even the lowly M3 can kill ack from outside the acks range


SKurj

[lazs2]

I tthink urchin has got it.  I agree with everything in his post.   I especially agree that an osty is OPEN TOPPED... even a few fifty cal rounds wizzing throug the side armor or in thru the top would make hamburger of the gunner and crew..   A 20mm round exploding in the open turrent... a bunch of 303's or ought sixes rattling around in there.... sheesh...

Same with panzers... if the guy is half way out of the turrent facing down 6 50 cal's with his pissant 7.62....he should die easily... once he dies.... the tank should be more or less blind and incomunicado.

m16's are trucks.. they should be as easily killed as trucks.

spawn points..... why can't we kill the spawn point?   we can make airfields useless to fighters why not spawn points useless to GV's or pt's?
lazs

[Samm]

Originally posted by SKurj
Samm... NO gv in AH has to get through any acks.  They can all kill acks from a range at which they do not shoot back (exception being manned ack)

Even the lowly M3 can kill ack from outside the acks range


SKurj

Yeah that was my point, the gun on the ostwind has the same range as the 37mm field flak, so it has to get in ack range to kill it. The Panzer, LVT and m8 don't have to get that close . The only ack that the m2 on an m3 has range on is 20mm .

And lazs you can kill gv's spawn points, by killing the vh, which is much easier than killing FH's at a field .

[SKurj]

No it doesn't Samm.. well unless a player is manning the ack, which he can't at a town...
errm hmm is there 37mm AI ack? or are those just the player acks?

the AI ack range against GV's is at most 1/2 the range it uses vs air targets.

If you are just referring to manned ack nm +)


SKurj