Author Topic: so long, Constitution...  (Read 1287 times)

Offline Udie

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2002, 04:08:22 PM »
I haven't lost any.  I live life the same way now as I did then.  Except I quit smoking pot a couple of weeks ago, but that had nothing to do with this..........


I still debate...

and I'm still the master at it :D


I still can have any religion I want....

I can still own a gun.... (damn good thing I don't at least a couple of weeks ago)

Offline Thrawn

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2002, 04:10:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
thing I don't at least a couple of weeks ago)


Yes you still have rights.  No one is saying otherwise.  You just have less now then you did a year ago.

Offline Dinger

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2002, 04:13:14 PM »
Um... if we allow our rights to be "suspended", they will be suspended when we need them the most.  Democrat, Republican, I don't care who's to blame, the fact remains that this government is perverting our basic liberties, and most people are standing back and cheering them on.

Yeah, it's that small percentage of terrorists that's ruining it for the rest of it?  Screw it.  Any US citizen not willing to die for her or his rights isn't worthy of citizenship.  And if that means suffering fifty 9/11-class attacks a year, and possible death, so be it.

Offline Kieran

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2002, 06:07:01 PM »
Quote
And if that means suffering fifty 9/11-class attacks a year, and possible death, so be it.


You can't be serious.

Offline Eagler

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2002, 06:30:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger
Um... if we allow our rights to be "suspended", they will be suspended when we need them the most.  Democrat, Republican, I don't care who's to blame, the fact remains that this government is perverting our basic liberties, and most people are standing back and cheering them on.

Yeah, it's that small percentage of terrorists that's ruining it for the rest of it?  Screw it.  Any US citizen not willing to die for her or his rights isn't worthy of citizenship.  And if that means suffering fifty 9/11-class attacks a year, and possible death, so be it.


ruining what? exactly what has changed for YOU?

and don't give me that crap that this is just the start and big bad big brother gov is going to slowly take away all of your rights, blah, blah, blah

what did the above mentioned article change er "RUIN" for you?

just what I thought, not a dam thing...

statements like this:

"And if that means suffering fifty 9/11-class attacks a year, and possible death, so be it"
 
tells me your under 25 or retarded or both - hell of a thing to say on any day esp this day
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Offline Innominate

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2002, 06:33:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran


You can't be serious.


Freedom is NOT free.
Freedom can only be maintained at the cost of lives.  The civil liberties in this country are falling apart because nobody is willing to die for them.  

We've become complacent.  Our government has been fairly helpfull to us, especially compared to so many others.  The unites states is one of the richest countries in the world.  Now, civil liberties are of little importance to most people if it means a few people's lives can be saved.  As we surrender more rights, the government will keep pushing to take more away.  A "temporary" reduction in rights will simply show the government how little americans care, so they can take them permanently once we get used to it.  You may never notice any significant difference.  Even your children may not notice it, but it's there, slowly but surely it's there.

People die.  People die constantly.  The WTC attacks were a big event, simply killing a lot of people at once.  Car accidents kill FAR more people every year than americans have been killed by terrorists.

The US is built on the graves of those who died for our freedom.  And now we're giving it up, all to save an insignficant few.  

The WTC attacks were a terrible thing, and we should be going after the SOB's who did it.  But sacrificing our own rights because of it is NOT AN OPTION.


Fast forward 50 years,
"Welcome to the United Police State of America"
« Last Edit: September 11, 2002, 06:36:43 PM by Innominate »

Offline Fatty

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2002, 06:35:43 PM »
There is no evidence whatsoever SOB was involved.

What are the points good for?

Offline Pei

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2002, 06:45:04 PM »
Quote
What are the points good for?


You can redeem them for comps at the Luxor, Las Vegas.

Offline Hajo

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2002, 06:46:42 PM »
Folks.....we're putting the blame on the wrong person methinks.  In regards to Iran, the UN stipulated in 1991 that arms inspectors will be in Iran to verify that weapons of mass destruction aren't available, being made, or being bought.  So, where are the arms inspectors the UN placed in Iran?  They sure aren't in Iran.....they were unceremoniously booted.  What did the UN do to rectify this problem?  Nothing.  So for a number of years, a man who is guilty of gassing his own people, has been left alone to do as he sees fit in acquiring, building, and purchasing weapons of mass destruction.  If my memory serves me, I remember at least two people in the last century of making it obligatory to kill his own people.  I think Hitler and Stalin were their names.  I also remember in History a gentlman, a well meaning gentleman by the way decided along with his political superiors to give part of a country away, by the way not his country, to appease a certain dictator.  I don't remember a vote being taken in the unfortunate country whether they wanted to be part of Germany again.  Doesn't matter.  The appeasement unfortunately didn't work and alas.......another world war occured shortly thereafter.

My take since 9/11.......the UN is even more worthless then I had thought.  Sorry to say that but it's obivious there's no backbone there.  I don't recall any other country having lost 3000 people in one day during  the recent past.  Oh........I forgot citizens of 92 coutries died during 9/11/01.  So....does the world let Hussein continue until he decides to nuke, gas or murder more people and become a larger threat to mankind?  Or does the US, Great Britain......appears also France is going to enter along side the US and Great Britain, and from what I've read recently that Spain is also leaning that way, dispose of this threat?  Or does the UN do what it does best......let the US be the badguy so that their image as a peace making body is not tarnished?  Or do they tell Iran..........look..........w eapons inspectors are going to be a way of life as we declared in 1991?

Nelson Mandella has chimed in and said " The US is the biggest threat to World Peace."  I wonder what Nelson has for intelligence gathering equipment seeing as how he is no longer of any consequence as an elected official.  I wonder what intelligence information he could dig up with two dug out canoes and a kite.  As always opinions vary.....but you've heard this quote many times "Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it."  It's corny and oft repeated....but guess what...it has proven to be true.

Let's Roll        one way or the other UN backed and supported.......or do it without the testically impaired.

War is ignorant.......it's a waste of many things.  But what is more ignorant, is hoping that the threat will go away.....and finding out the threat is in your backyard, and many people have died or been injured because of a lack of action of some nature.  Hopefully it's not war.

Hajo
- The Flying Circus -

Offline Thrawn

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2002, 06:46:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
ruining what? exactly what has changed for YOU?


He apparently is losing the following rights, right now.  As are you.

• Freedom of association
• Freedom of information
• Freedom of speech
• Right to legal representation
• Freedom from unreasonable searches
• Right to a speedy and public trial
• Right to liberty

I'm imagining that the act will be taken to court.  And I hope that if it proved to be unconstitional that your courts will overturn it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2002, 06:52:43 PM by Thrawn »

Offline AKIron

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2002, 06:54:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger
Um... if we allow our rights to be "suspended", they will be suspended when we need them the most.  Democrat, Republican, I don't care who's to blame, the fact remains that this government is perverting our basic liberties, and most people are standing back and cheering them on.

Yeah, it's that small percentage of terrorists that's ruining it for the rest of it?  Screw it.  Any US citizen not willing to die for her or his rights isn't worthy of citizenship.  And if that means suffering fifty 9/11-class attacks a year, and possible death, so be it.


Um... exactly how do you enjoy your rights when you are dead?

I don't mind giving up my right to go skulking about plotting terrorism and I sure don't mind giving up your right to the same.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2002, 06:54:23 PM »
Hajo, out of couriosity, what the heck did your anti-UN diatribe have to do with US civil liberties?

Offline Thrawn

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2002, 06:57:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Um... exactly how do you enjoy your rights when you are dead?


Good question to ask the American revolutionaries.

Offline Tumor

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Re: so long, Constitution...
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2002, 06:57:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hawk220
10 points to the first person who can count the number of Amendments that were ripped up for the Patriot Act.


Monday, September 09, 2002, 12:00 a.m. Pacific


New law changes some legal rights of Americans


By The Associated Press


 
 

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act after the terror attacks:

• Freedom of association: To assist terror investigation, the government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity.

• Freedom of information: The government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public-records requests. "Sensitive" information has been removed from government Web sites.

• Freedom of speech: The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

• Right to legal representation: The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

• Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

• Right to a speedy and public trial: The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

• Right to liberty: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. "Enemy combatants" have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys. Plans for military tribunals have been initiated.

Information from Knight-Ridder Newspapers is included in this report.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/134531987_rights09.html

(by the way..this won't be changing anytime soon...at least not in our lifetimes during the 'forever war')



Waaa Waaaa Waaaaa
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Offline AKIron

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so long, Constitution...
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2002, 07:04:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn


Good question to ask the American revolutionaries.


OK, since you seem so willing to sacrifice 150,000 American a year let me ask you what sacrifice you have made to defend your rights? Furthermore, it would seem that since your so willing to die for the perceived loss of rights what are you in fact willing to do to preserve them?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.