furball island... why not?

[Smut]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
I played WB from V.91 until 2.0. A furball island never existed and people were always extremely happy with the fighting there. It was always constant.

Bahahaha...what game was this?

Certainly not WB. Unless you have a very selective memory.

As for furball island, add my vote for it. I've followed this whole thread with amusement, watching the venting that is going on...and still I haven't seen one valid reason not to do it.

I think those vocal few that are opposed are afraid it will be more popular than their prefered gameplay, and indeed it may be at first while everyone checks it out. In the long run, however, it will probably even out.

What is the danger in trying it? This doesn't require any additional coding to do. Why not set it up as an experiement for a tour?

What's the harm in that?

-Smut

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Smut:
Bahahaha...what game was this?

Certainly not WB. Unless you have a very selective memory.

No, I just didn't read the message boards because I could never find them. I'd log into the arena and find a fight. No one squeaked, no one complained. There was nothing detrimental to my enjoyment as far as too much text being transmitted and no one complaining about fighting.

The only time I remember complaining was when icons were removed for all planes. That was a legit complaint too, you couldn't tell the difference between friendlies or enemies.

The only person that had a mouth when I was online was Dkid... and I joined his squad. I liked the guy a lot and we would have verbal exchanges on ch1, but it was all in good fun.

My memory is not selective, I remember my time in WB vividly. It was a great time. I certainly don't remember any of the tripe that I read on this board or in the game.

Someone's always got a gripe that they have to voice. 90% of the time it's just annoying, 10% of the time it can be legit.

It gets uhm.... tiresome.
-SW

[lazs]

what is gratifiying to me is the new (to posting)faces that are responding to this thread.   I really do feel that there is a rift in the player base right now and that the balance between fun and anal, Amish work ethic has been skewed.   I see that the strat potatos are threatening to quit if there is a place where people are having fun even if it has no effect on them or their game or their choices other than to maybe thin their ranks a little by taking the chains off some of their captive (and bored) players.

Lep is right... It's not our "imagination" nor is it "easy to find a fight"  even with radar.... Spend 10 minutes to get to a field and if there ever was afight it's over by the  time u get there.... I talk to dozens of guys on RW while playing and every single one of em is on a (mostly fruitless) serch for action.... They log off in clumps... A fight with more than about 8 planes is HUGE these days and will guarentee that some spoil sport , attention starved strat potato will do his level best to ruin it.   furballs are kept secret like raves or somethin.

I would love to hear what RW sounded like in a group of the Amish strat potatos.   what ever can they be doing all this time before they club some undefended field into submission?  Guess if you flew P51's instead of fighters it would be understandable tho.
lazs

[Tumbler1000]

"Normally furballs only distract countries from their defence"

Countries Defense? IT'S A GAME! There is no contract that says you must fight as a team to win the war. Fighting in the same method can get a bit repetitive, take off fly 10 min, shoot enemy planes, bomb enemy base, rtb.

"Mindless Furballing"
How is furballing Mindless? It takes more intelligence to fly a bomber strike? HA. Fly away from enemies for 10 - 20 min gaining alt, line up on base, drop bombs.
The only time I feel mindless playing the game is on long bomber missions.

Vote yes for Furball Island!

Just change those 3 vehicle hangars in the center to allow planes to take off at 5k and don't award any points for planes launched from this base. And probs?

[pzvg]

Well,well,well What do we have here?
Looks like the CTF and deathmatch types are at each others throats again.  
FYI I DO play quake/RS/CS etc,and I've been around with AW/WB/and now AH, You know something? Never really noticed a difference between the two gamesets, both have lab workers (Brainzz) and lab mice (D00dZ) If anything, the quakers have it over you guys on original insults.
You say you want to have your own playground that "Strat potatos" there's a nice honorific,
Ya kiss yore momma with that mouth? can't interfere with the high-minded act of dweebish kill-stealing,ackrunning,flying-into-your-own-sides-bullets-'cuz-of-killshooter that is passed off as MANO-A-MANO air combat here, but nothing that would stop you from wandering into their playground in search of "fun" That my friends is very biased,unsurprising, considering the great lengths you've gone to to put those folks down.
I like a good intense multi-level dogfight, it's a rush, but support you and your "boys club"? I cannot, you only deem fair in definitions that apply to you and you alone, while attempting to win converts by the rather curious method of insulting and stereotyping those who cannot accept your point of view.
If an arena in this game were created with that rationale, It would harm the game,HTC,and the community.

I vote no.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Seeker]

Here's another vote for the furball island.

You want to go bomb stuff, go ahead. I'm here to furball; and it often takes too long to find a fight.

The only time I'm interested in any thing else is for Historic Scenarios.

If I wanted a "Total war"; I'd be in the que for WWII-online. I'm not, I'm looking for a flight sim. A combat flight sim with piston engines.

Not a civil sim crossed with steel beasts.

[eagl]

WB had several "furball island" areas, most notably the last 2D version's symmetrical water terrain.  The 4 fields in the center were perfectly set up for multi-country furballs.  Ever since that terrain, the fields in both AH and WB had been growing farther and farther apart.  The current AH terrain was the first to dramatically reverse that trend, and I applaud HTC for making the change.  

Different people have different ideas of how much change is necessary (alt launches/uncapturable/no bombers/no vehicles/uber-ack/etc) but they all seem to point towards 2 desires:

1)  A place where people can satisfy their desire to get in as many dogfights as possible in their online time

2)  A place where fighter combat is the prime objective, where the pilot's skill and teamwork is tested in pure air combat, without ground vehicles interfering.

How we get that is up to debate.  The current "easiest" option is to remove the vehicle fields from the current center island, but that would negatively impact those people who use the center island specifically for ground vehicle battles.

After reading this thread, I'm no longer interested in hearing people whine about how a few fields designed to facilitate good furballs would "split the area" or somehow take away from the fun of those who like the strat parts of the game.  Those reasons are given by the same people who think (and repeately state) that 8 player H2H or a separate arena should be "just as good" as a furball in an open arena.  Those people have no true concept of why people enjoy furballs, and therefore in their mind they consider a furball to be any fight, regardless of how many aircraft are there, how long it took to fly to the fight, or how many ships/tanks/osties/bombers are also butting into the play.  They just don't get it and likely never will.  

Regardless of what you want, let HTC know what you think in a calm, cool, collected manner, and they'll do what they think is best for the game and their profit margins because they have to pay the bills in addition to keeping us happy.  That's the only reason why I bother making this kind of post...  I'm sure not going to convince Deja that 4v4 doesn't count as a furball without such teaching aids as a bar and a whole lot of good booze  


------------------
eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[AKDejaVu]

 

After reading this thread, I'm no longer interested in hearing people whine about how a few fields designed to facilitate good furballs would "split the area" or somehow take away from the fun of those who like the strat parts of the game.

Don't believe I ever said anything about taking fun away from the strat players.

 

Those reasons are given by the same people who think (and repeately state) that 8 player H2H or a separate arena should be "just as good" as a furball in an open arena.

Separated area in the main arena was the original presentation Eagl.  Your idea obviously varies greatly from that.  If you are going to have a completely separate area for one group.. then a different area for another.. you are SEPARATING those groups.

 

Those people have no true concept of why people enjoy furballs, and therefore in their mind they consider a furball to be any fight, regardless of how many aircraft are there, how long it took to fly to the fight, or how many ships/tanks/osties/bombers are also butting into the play. They just don't get it and likely never will.

You mean I don't get your idea of a furball.  I don't get your idea of what "butting into the play" is.  I don't get your idea of "regardless how many aircraft are there".  10 isn't a furball.. 30 is a furball.. a furball can't have people interfering unless they are in fighters.. 4 minutes is too long to get to a furball.. a furball can't have any ack nearby.. ack needs to be controlled at fields.. fields need to be close enough to make a furball convenient.. fields can't be close enough that everyone will be running for their ack.

I participate in furballs all the time EAGL.  I look for areas where alot of enemy fighters are and head there for the sole purpose of shooting them down.  No strategy other than that.. just to engage enemy planes.  That is furballing.  I do it and many others do to.

This thread is dedicated to defining a specific form of furballing and throwing it in everyone else's face.  Anyone that doesn't agree with that obviously doesn't like to furball and their input isn't welcome.  Its been made clear on a regular basis, and thankyou for doing it again.

AKDejaVu

[Seeker]

AK Dejavu,
         I'll give you a perfect example of what I hate:

Logged on to night, and A8 was very hot. I could up, grab fanticaly, reverse at 5K and by the time I was back over the field, Action!
This went on for about 20 minutes, and was tremendous fun.

Then a pair of Lancs came over at 20k, and laid waste to the field, therby depriving about 20 people of their fighting fun.

I was then faced with a boring prospect of a multi sector ride to find some action, so I logged.

What is it that bothers you about how others want to fly? Why are you so determined to make sure that your choice is the only choice?

Why should I be forced to join your war?

Your vision of a perpetual three sided conflict, with combined arms operations and base capture simply bores me to tears. It's not worth $9,95 per month to me, much less $30,00.

We're we talking of an historic setting, I'd have more patience with your views, but in a general melee arena?

Go off and do what you want, but please leave me out of ut.

[Midnight]

lazs... well... hmmm... One of my squad's directives discourages the engagement of attacks directed against individuals on the BBS. So let's just say that you should know what I would like to say to you.

I told you before, if you want to furball then go right ahead and do so. Don't expect any special treatment for your "fantasy island" in the MA. Everything needs to be equal there, plain and simple.

It sounds like there are plenty of like-minded guys in here that want to furball. You have options, go exercise them...

1. Set up a H2H and let everyone know what times you will be there to furball.
2. Go to the TA with the rest of the furballers and fight all damned day.

I tell you that I am becoming plenty sick of you and your whiny attitude calling all that don't furball "strat potato" and "amish" and whatever else your heart desires.

IIRC, the non-furball types haven't made up any name calling insults to throw at you, have they? I guess it just goes to show that those who can play chess are a little more educated than those that play pick-up-sticks.

------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS
 midnight@13thtas.com

"I see you have made your decision. Now let's see you enforce it." -Brandon Lee (The Crow)

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
what is gratifiying to me is the new (to posting)faces that are responding to this thread.   I really do feel that there is a rift in the player base right now and that the balance between fun and anal, Amish work ethic has been skewed.   I see that the strat potatos are threatening to quit if there is a place where people are having fun even if it has no effect on them or their game or their choices other than to maybe thin their ranks a little by taking the chains off some of their captive (and bored) players.

I decided to pay for this sim for the same reason you did (to have fun).  Now that you are unhappy with the game you want to change the main arena to meet "your" needs and you wonder why most people don't agree with you????

I'm not against a Quake arena I'm against a Quake arena within the MA.  I'm not saying I wouldn't try the Quake arena I'm just saying
I don't think it would last and I feel it would be bad for AH as a whole.

I'm all for Dale opening a Quake/Laz arena I'm against any form of Quaking in the MA, thats all.

Mox

[J_A_B]

Reasoning doesn't work.

Examples don't work.

Proof from other sims don't work.

Other people agreeing doesn't work.


Neither side can make a convincing argument one way or the other, because everyone has their head stuck in the sand.


It is becomming obvious that people have their minds made up and are unwilling to give an inch.

THAT attitude--the unwillingness to accomodate other's view--is the opposite of positive growth.  It's also the biggest factor limiting AH's growth.  Compromise is what fuels growth....not stonewalling and clinging to the present while shutting out new thoughts.

Unfortunately, BOTH sides are guilty of ignoring each other.  Nobody wants to give an inch, or so much as listen to the other side.  Nobody puts himself in the other guy's shoes.   The name calling certainly doesn't help any, and only fosters greater animosity.  

The attitude I see is "I am right, and the other guy doesn't agree with me.  Therefore, he must be wrong".     Black and White....no in-between.


Why pay 30 bucks a month for the chance to be rude to each other?   We get enough of that in Real Life for free.


All this stonewalling and namecalling  accomplishes, is it makes the AH community appear "stuck up" or "snobbish".  This community is better than that.


Rise above it.


J_A_B

[pzvg]

Yeah JAB the issue has become pretty polarized, and it always will be, But note, there are middle of the road folk around, they haven't taken a side, creating in effect a arena within an arena, is going to force them to choose a side, you know what? "If you ain' with us you agin us" is a rather ignorant method of dealing with the issue, Let's hear some ideas that might fix the problem as it stands, ie; furballers being deprived of their fun by the actions of the strat folk, instead of trying for some online form of segregation that a moment's thought would show cannot work, simply because it either hopes people follow the rules (Yeah I really see that happening) or artificially limits what folks can do.
Oh and note, If you really desire your ideas to be taken seriously, try more logic and less venom, I see no reason to give credence to someone willing to call people "potato" simply because they won't play his way.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[lazs]

jab... I'm afraid your right.   I know that furball island is percieved as a threat to some.   They fear that it will siphon off players from the type of game that AH has RECENTLY become and one that they feel is "better".  

Strat potatos?   Hey they are hitting stategic targets in order to earn perkies so that they may evolve into perk jerks..  Why should I care?   I don't really, so long as they don't ruin the game for me.  And so... Furball island.   Revetments, unkillable fighter hangers whatever... all we ask is that a lone suicide bomber can't spoil the fun of 20 guys.   We don't have a "furballers only drinking fountain"   everyone is welcome and it SHOULD be a place that even dedicated furballers would not allways choose... If something interesting was happenning somewhere els on the map.... we might go there.  

Furballers don't want to spoil anyones fun.  They just want to not have theirs spoiled.   I have said that bombers would not be available from those fields maybe bombs in general.   You would not earn any bomber points from there and you could not be a threat to the "strat" (whatever that is) game.   There of course would be no problem if the strat potatos would police themselves and not ruin it for furballers but....

And what is lost with unkillable fields at a few places?  I mean seriously... Any serious student would laugh when you explained the AH "field capture" and "strat" and how bout them "kill the hanger and planes cant take off"?  Now theres some real WWII realism eh guys?

A furball to me is fields close enough that you can reach the mid point in about a minute or so.   The furball is not about the fields and it is an aerial tug-o-war with one side getting closer to the field then the other.  It is a fight that if 5 squaddies are involved you are likely to see 3-4 in the fight at any one time.   When someone makes it impossible to take off from any of those fields the furball is over.   End of fun.   It's that simple.   Furballers look for someplace else on the map and have a few more halfhearted attempts and then log.   furballers DO NOT organize head to head or seperate arena's   We are lazy.   We feel that we pay to play a game not the other way around.   We expect to have our style accomadated.   Call us spoiled or stupid or lazy but when we quit the reason is not important now is it?  IF A GAME ISN'T FUN WE SIMPLY CUT DOWN OR STOP PLAYING IT.  Perhaps that is what some elite would like.   But that seems selfish for such an easily avoidable thing.   Telling us that we are having fun and just don't know it does not work.  Telling us that it is our imagination won't work.
lazs

[Seeker]

Punt