Why no HE-111???

[brady]

I would be "upset" to see HTC spend the time on another early war German Bomber we do not nead it at present what to me are priourities are fleshing out the plane set for Japan, Italy and Russia, producing redundant bomber types paticulary inferiour one for time periouds already represented is imo a waste of time. Granted the He 111 is historicaly revelant and a cool looking plane, howeaver the argument for adding it is primarly one of" well I like it" so I can understand this point but not back it. When plane inclushion is discused it is always at the expense of some other plane at least in the short term( the update release window 4 to 6 months). The lack of a well developed plane set for the Japanese and Russians, and to a lesser extent to Italians is causing problems in the CT in terms of balenced set up's, personaly I am tierd of subing B 26's for every Russian set we do, adding the TBM to ever pac set up for the Japanese, ect.

 Now for simply the sake of argument as to which German Buff should be added, the one that brings the most to table is the He 177. Historical revelence, numbers produced and popularity amongst it's crews are not factors for determing inclushion of a plane in AH. The He 177 in the A5 varient as Staga has pointed out realy solved most all of those problems and was used extensively in the East in the later part of the war in mass aganst Soviet positions, and in the Babby Blitz of 44, although to less effect. This is a game gents and to that end the He 177 is the most usefull of all the later German bombers for use in the MA, best bombload, defensive package and very good preformance. On top of that in any late war CT set up it would have as much a place as any other late war German Buff, the inclushion of which generaly is a gameplay function Just as a Lancaster or B 17 is, how often were any of these used for tactial pourpouses, and In the case of the Lancaster and in part the He 177 during the day.

[J_A_B]

The CT could really use an Axis transport too  

The c-47 IS THE most often-used substiture I believe

J_A_B

[brady]

Well a Tabby would be real easy to do, and very popular.

[hyena426]

.

The He111 had slightly better armament, couple of more 7.9mm machine guns, not enough to make up for its speed IMO.

,,it had a little more than just 7.9     (P-2) 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 15 machine gun on manual mountings in nosecap, open dorsal position and ventral gondola; (H-3) same, plus fixed forward-firing MG 15 or 17, two MG 15's in waist windows and (usually) 20mm MG FF cannon in front of ventral gondola and (sometimes) fixed rear-firing MG 17 in extreme tail; internal bomb load up to 2,000kg in vertical cells, stored nose-up; external bomb load (at expense of internal) one 2,000kg on H-3 or two 500kg on others; later marks carried one or two 765kg torpedoes, Bv 246 glide missiles, Hs 293 rocket missiles, Fritz X radio-controlled glide bombs or one FZG-76 (V-1) cruise missile,,,,20mm,,everyone seems to forget he111 had:),,its is a cool lookin plane,,and i would love too see it in here,,i never seen one in flight sim,,and germans do need a few more bombers,,why not this great old work horse,,lol

[J_A_B]

Tell me more about the "Tabby" Brady. I'm not familiar with this particular aircraft.   Was this the Japanese version of the C-47?

J_A_B

[Wilbus]

The Ju88 A4 (the one we have) also had a 20mm MG FF in the front. Of course as this is AH ours don't have it.

The Few more 7.9mm Mg's doens't make up for the extremely low speed the He111 had, specialy not compared to a Ju188 (with better aremament then the He111) or the Ju88S.

[hazed-]

He111 would be pointless.

carries less of a load than the ju88a4 we have , has less armament and is slower.

Just what we need for MA!


what about a Ju188, He177 or do217? at least you could actually damage something with their bomb loads.(if you could hit anything:p )

[ramzey]

Originally posted by hazed-
He111 would be pointless.

carries less of a load than the ju88a4 we have , has less armament and is slower.

Just what we need for MA!


what about a Ju188, He177 or do217? at least you could actually damage something with their bomb loads.(if you could hit anything:p )

most of planes we dont need for MA, only for historical events;)
Unarmored he111 are easier  target then armored ju88
Even year give big technical advence during ww2.
Aircrafts armor, fuel, cooling systems, weapons was changed each couple months.
Im sure, dont need explain evaluation between fire weight of 8x 0,303 cal guns by 2x 20 mm+12mm cannons and guns on spit's
I cant imagine play BoB once again and fight against planes from 1941 year.

ramzey

[hyena426]

carries less of a load than the ju88a4 we have , has less armament and is slower.

 ju88 couldnt carry as much as a he111,,he111 carried allmost 7,000lb of bombs,,,more than a b26 could carry,its slower,,but then again,,it carries allmost twice as much on bomb load,,,lol,,and in 1938 it had the record for speed with heavy payload

Unarmored he111 are easier target then armored ju88

,a he111 is armored good,,one of the first to design armor into the plane,,,it was just little slow by the time 1941 rolled along,,but it still served the spanish forces till 1965,,longer than any othere german bomber lasted,,it was a good all around plane

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady
I would be "upset" to see HTC spend the time on another early war German Bomber we do not nead it at present what to me are priourities are fleshing out the plane set for Japan, Italy and Russia, producing redundant bomber types paticulary inferiour one for time periouds already represented is imo a waste of time. Granted the He 111 is historicaly revelant and a cool looking plane, howeaver the argument for adding it is primarly one of" well I like it"

 Neh ... that's more the argument of adding uber experi-mental bombers and fighters. The He-111 adds more depth simply because it's a decent beginning to end bomber. Not only that, it saw service in the Spanish Civil War and the more planes added that can stretch back that far, the more depth and flexability you add to historical scenario design. About five years more depth since not much in the AH Euro set that can claim significant pre-1942 use (of course I could be wrong and fully expect a plethora of reponses correcting me if so). The more flexibility of design, the better chance of designing a scenario that isn't "Kursk XXVII" part 2 segment b (this time we changed one of the rules on page 47). The He-111 should have been added before the Ju-88.

(Just a visitor trying to contribute)

[brady]

The Tabby was the license buitl vershion of the C 47. The Japanese improved apon it it a bit by adding more powerfull engines( higher top speed) and defensive guns including and up to one 13mm MG and 2 7.7mm mg's.

 
Arlo, in case you missed my point I will restate it for you, I do not feal the priourity right now should be on a new early war german buff, in fact I see no presing nead to add anything new for the Germans, US or Brition. I feal that the Russians, Japanese and Italians nead some attention. any points i made regarding the best choice for the Next German buff were mearly for the sake of argument.

[J_A_B]

"The Japanese improved apon it it a bit by adding more powerfull engines( higher top speed) and defensive guns including and up to one 13mm MG and 2 7.7mm mg's. "

That doesn't seem like it'd be too much trouble to add, more like adding a variant than a new plane       It'd be great for the CT and would doubtlessly see plenty of MA use too (likely more than a lot of AH's fighters heh heh).    

J_A_B

[brady]

Ya I can see the delama in the Hanger, Hmmmm should I take the slower unarmed troop transport or the faster armed one.......hmmmmm I am so torn whatever will I do!:)

[Arlo]

Originally posted by brady

Arlo, in case you missed my point I will restate it for you. I do not feel the priority right now should be on a "new" early war German buff. In fact I see no pressing need to add anything new for the Germans, US or British. I feel that the Russians, Japanese and Italians need some attention. Any points i made regarding the best choice for the next German buff were merely for the sake of argument.

 That's fine so unbunch `em, Brady. This thread was about the 111 so I added my two cents about it. It happened to be as a counter-point to your p.o.v. that the only reason to add it was that players thought "well, I like it." I saw all the other excuses as well and know how you feel about it. I also know that presenting a differing point of view to you when you've got your mind made up is tantamount to whispering to the deaf. My p.o.v. stands. Didn't think it would influence you for a second. You're wrong, of course but that doesn't matter.

 But since you mentioned the Russians and Italians .... wait a sec, guess I better ask you if you've got your heels dug in against early planes there too, huh?

[hyena426]

The He-111 should have been added before the Ju-88.

 right on the money,,,i dont know why some people are against this plane,,it was popular,,it seen long servis,,,from 1937 till 1965,,and its a better bomber than ju88 besides speed,,ju88 faster,,but it dont carry as many guns or bombs,,i know every time i mention this plane or liberator,a few people{ i wont mention who} jump on me about it,,,,only 2 planes,,and so much grief and fighting over,,when they should be here,,they were used,,they were produced in large numbers,, and good planes:)