Author Topic: Why no HE-111??? (Read 1748 times)

Imp · « **Reply #60 on:** October 04, 2002, 06:18:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Which is still an uber vs. historical and theater flexibility argument. The He-111 just plain has more on it's resume'.

No its not its a matter of useful german bomber for mid late war period wich the Ju88 and He111 are not. Is that so hard to understand?

No one here said they didnt want the He111 what we are saying is that germany needs a mid war bomber much more then it needs a poor performing, poorly defended early war buff (He111).

He177 Do217 and Ju188 would be much more surviveable and they would fill the mid war bomber spot for germany.

Is that clear enough for you.

Wilbus · « **Reply #61 on:** October 04, 2002, 06:53:07 AM »

Ju88 S Ju88 S! It's got the SPEEEEEEED YEAH MAN!

WRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOM!

hyena426 · « **Reply #62 on:** October 04, 2002, 02:38:26 PM »

Quote

poorly defended early war buff (He111).

ju188 is really poorly defended,cool plane its fast,but it has 3mg's and no cannons,,,compared to the he111's 5 mg's and one 20mm,now for alt and speed he111 stinks,,,,he177 is a good plane but killed more of its own crews by burning up,,they didnt call it the lighter for nothing:) both ju188 and he177 came out about 1942 but didnt get full attetion till 1944,,,fills the late end of the war really well,but i would say the do217 would be more of a mid war bomber than he177 and ju188,,made in 1939 conversions in 1941,,do217 had good armament and tuff plane,,i beleve all these bombers{if you like it or not}will have to be added somtime or you will have gap's in your historical scenario's,,how can you have battle of Britain with out he111? and yes gremans do need a late war bomber

Wilbus · « **Reply #63 on:** October 04, 2002, 04:34:29 PM »

Hyena426, the Mg's in the He111 are Mg 15's, they are 7.9 mm, meaning they suck bad. The 20mm was stationed in the front, much like the one in the Ju88A4 (we don't have the 20mm in the Ju88). It was an Mg FF, low speed slow firing 20mm (the same as in the 109 E4).

Also, you're wrong on the Ju 188.

The dorsal position in the Ju188 is the same as in the Ju88, an Mg81 Z (twin fast firing Mg81's, 7.9mm). The nose gun was a 20mm Mg151 in the A version and a 13mm in teh E version. A was the bomber E was more path finder. Both the E and A also had a turret on the top, mounted with a Mg 151 20mm aswell as one more gun positon statione little lower with a Mg 131. All in all the Ju 188 had 2 Mg151's, 1 Mg 131 (13mm) and a fast firing (3000 rounds per minute) Mg 81.

WAY better armament then a He111, attacking a Ju188 from anywhere then from underneth would be very very dangerous.

It also carried 3000 kg (6600 lbs) of bombs in a speed of over 500 km/h.
It was equiped with dive brakes. Later versions became even faster and it saw plenty of service.

Arlo · « **Reply #64 on:** October 04, 2002, 08:56:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Imp

No its not its a matter of useful german bomber for mid late war period wich the Ju88 and He111 are not. Is that so hard to understand?

Is that clear enough for you.

"Mid to late war" leaves out alot of history. AH scenario design doesn't allow for aircraft substitution. Is this getting through? Can you hear me? Am I sounding equally condenscending yet? Hello? Are you there? Earth to Imp!

Seriously, though. I think you musta missed my desire to see a Spanish Civil War planeset in development here a year or so ago.

Of course there'll never be one but I like to throw in my two cents outa habit from time to time.

You just don't get it, Scott.

hyena426 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 05, 2002, 12:46:34 AM »

im sure later had much better guns,,its a good plane,,,and how can you have a spanish war with out he111? Data of the: Ju 188 A-2

Length: 14,95 m
Width: 22,02 m
Height: 4,45 m
Crew: 4
Motor: Jumo 213 A
Power: 2 x 1775 PS
Vmax: 520 km/h
Range: 2400 km
Ceiling: 9500 m
Armament: 1 x MG151/20
1 x MG151
1 x MG121
up to 3.000 kg bombload
only 3 guns,,,its a good plane,,anything wrong with a he111? nope good plane,,just slow,, it is a italian bomber too,need a bomber for there plane set,,it served for a long time there too

Wilbus · « **Reply #66 on:** October 05, 2002, 04:23:57 AM »

Hyena, I'm nor sure you're following me.

The Ju188 we're discussing was equiped with 1x13mm (50 caliber size, same as 190 A8, F8 and D9 carries in the cowling) 1xMg 151 20mm (this is a cannon) in the noce, 1xMg 151 20mm cannon in a rotating turret on the top and one Mg 81 Z for bottom rear defence.

The rotating turret 20mm more then makes up for ALL the 7.9mm light machine guns on the He111.

The He111 have a speed of about 430 km/h. The He111 is not needed, I don't think the Spanish civil war has really been in the minds of HTC as what they are doing is a WW2 game. I want the He111 but it is not needed, not as much as a mid/late war buff.

All Ju188's had about this armament and it packs a punch.

Arlo · « **Reply #67 on:** October 05, 2002, 12:46:21 PM »

Of course they didn't have it in mind or we'd be flying it. It would be something new and different.

You just don't get it, Scott.

hyena426 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 05, 2002, 01:57:27 PM »

lol,well italians didnt have much for good bombers,,besides the he111,,which the spanish loved that plane and used the he111 more than any othere bomber they had,,,its a good plane to add,,because they been wanting to add a italian and german bomber,,it kills 2 birds with 1 stone,,,i beleve they need a late one too,,but 2 very importaint planes are missing,,he111,and the stuka,not having the stuka in a ww2 sim is kinda like not having butter on your toast!! that plane should of been here a long time ago

Wilbus · « **Reply #69 on:** October 05, 2002, 02:07:02 PM »

As for the Ju 87 I agree

Arlo · « **Reply #70 on:** October 05, 2002, 02:21:11 PM »

The early one.

Wilbus · « **Reply #71 on:** October 05, 2002, 03:03:01 PM »

Early, mid and G.

D2 with 20mm in wings instead of normal 7.9mm and the G with 37mm.

bioconscripter · « **Reply #72 on:** October 05, 2002, 08:40:58 PM »

Yeah, the Fw-200 Kondor was a passenger plane converted into a bomber so it was fragile. A Me-163 would be a great plane in AH. And, yes, the Stuka too.

What about some Polish planes? Polish planes are excellent and are very underated and unappriciated but in reality they were very good at fighting Germans. Did you know that a unarmed Polish biplane destroyed a Me-109???

Pilikarpov I-16 would be also a great plane to fly in AH. Fast, manuverable, armed with heavy cannons, shredding enemy fighters.

And Il-4 is also a great bomber, it has that classical WWII bomber look with all that glass at the front. It's also fun shooting at the glass.

Wilbus · « **Reply #73 on:** October 05, 2002, 08:43:23 PM »

Me163 will most likely be in next version.

Samm · « **Reply #74 on:** October 05, 2002, 08:56:59 PM »

Anybody with half a brain knows that the HE111 existed only as inflatable mockups . So, do you want inflatable mockups modeled in AH ? DO YOU ? HUH ?

didn't think so .