Author Topic: Gun owners and non-gun owners... (Read 1939 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #75 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:27:09 AM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
Crime rises for first time in a decade

I guess you missed this little item last week.

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an increase that coincided with an economic downturn that many experts say played a key role. Murder, armed robbery, rape and burglary all were higher in 2001

Yep, all legal gun owners too I'll bet! ROTFLOL!

lazs2 · « **Reply #76 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:28:50 AM »

hardly mt. In fact... the fact that violent crimes have increased overall (debateable) but decreased where more enlightened firearms concealed carry laws are would tend to prove that... as lott says.... "more guns..less crime".

curval... America is not bermuda. taking away my gun is not going to stop the D.C. sniper or even stop the vast majority of firearms deaths in America (criminals shooting other criminals). It will either disarm me or make me a criminal tho. I trust my neighbors I don't know why you don't. Bermuda must be a terrible place if you need the govenment to protect you from each other.... if the only thing that keeps people from killing each other is to confiscate firearms.

I can shoot anywhere I want if I use common sense. I can't fire up a chainsaw in a theatre either.. Can't use a jackhammer in church... Can't fire up an arc welder without sheilding it. I can fire a gun at an intruder in my house tho. I can clean and work on my firearms in my house... I can reload ammo in my house. These things are fun to me and I would not deny them to others. I would not personaly deny these things to convicted felons who have served their time either.

I have no right to tell you that you have to have a gun but am more than uncomfortable in telling you that you can't. I wish you would show me the same courtesy and quit hiding behind some bogus reason for wanting to take away my freedom.
lazs

ra · « **Reply #77 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:36:20 AM »

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...taking away my gun is not going to stop the D.C. sniper ...

Not to mention the fact that the DC snipers were not allowed to own guns in the first place.

ra

midnight Target · « **Reply #78 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:37:20 AM »

Once again the point was completely missed by Ripsnort in his haste to post.

Do ya have proof that concealed carry laws reduce crime? Or do you have non-connected statistics that seem to be related but may not be?

My point was that while crime went up under Asscroft, it may not have been due to Asscroft. While crime went down in Florida (evidence please) it may not be due to gun laws.

Toad · « **Reply #79 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:43:35 AM »

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Originally posted by ra

Not to mention the fact that the DC snipers were not allowed to own guns in the first place.

ra

Are you saying they broke the law?

Unbelieveable! What some criminals will do!!!

Airhead · « **Reply #80 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:53:33 AM »

I agree you have the right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by the Second Amendment- however, there is no constitutional guarantee to the improved technology that has made firearms more lethal. I propose privately owned firearms be confined to the technology available in the late 1700s- IE, flintlocks.

A good marksman only needs one bullet to shoot an intruder anyway, it will even the playing field for hunted animals and will put us in touch with the trials and tribulations faced by our ancestors. I also think there should be no restrictions on our flintlocks and we should be allowed to carry our guns in public like we currently carry our tomahawks and sabres.

Ideas, anyone? Personally I think it's one of my better ones- a true win-win for both sides of the arguement.

lazs2 · « **Reply #81 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:08:07 AM »

airhead... good point but... flintlocks were not mentioned by the founding fathers. What was mentiond was that the militia provide their own arms of current style. Using your logic we should all carry the latest version of the M16 with 3 round burst capacity and beretta 9mm (i will petition to use my old fasioned 44mag tho).

Fine with me... How bout you guys?
lazs

Toad · « **Reply #82 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:36:37 AM »

..and extending this logic, the First Amendment Free Speech protections should "be confined to the technology available in the late 1700s".

Right?

Curval · « **Reply #83 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:51:59 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
curval... America is not bermuda. taking away my gun is not going to stop the D.C. sniper or even stop the vast majority of firearms deaths in America (criminals shooting other criminals). It will either disarm me or make me a criminal tho. I trust my neighbors I don't know why you don't. Bermuda must be a terrible place if you need the govenment to protect you from each other.... if the only thing that keeps people from killing each other is to confiscate firearms.

I can shoot anywhere I want if I use common sense. I can't fire up a chainsaw in a theatre either.. Can't use a jackhammer in church... Can't fire up an arc welder without sheilding it. I can fire a gun at an intruder in my house tho. I can clean and work on my firearms in my house... I can reload ammo in my house. These things are fun to me and I would not deny them to others. I would not personaly deny these things to convicted felons who have served their time either.

I have no right to tell you that you have to have a gun but am more than uncomfortable in telling you that you can't. I wish you would show me the same courtesy and quit hiding behind some bogus reason for wanting to take away my freedom.
lazs

My friend..your "freedom" is a farce. The most omnipotent organisation in the world is in america...namely the IRS. They know all about you...and if they feel you haven't "pinked" up the correct amount...you go to jail. I have no such restriction of my freedom to conduct business.

Bermuda is a GREAT place. It must be...we have a whole lot of u.s. companies with head-offices here...maybe you should check with them as to why they choose to live and work here. I can tell you one..it is a nice safe place to bring up kids. No guns in the hands of crazed snipers, or rogue day traders. Others might also include such things as..great golf courses, nice weather, clear unpolluted water..I could go on and on.

You trust your neigboors...but yet you carry a gun to protect yourself against them. Odd.

Taking away your guns will turn you into a crimminal...why?

You cannot shoot where you want...even with common sense. Your country has LAWS that say you cannot fire a weapon within city limits..for example.

Does sitting at home cleaning your guns really "do it for you" as much as you say? I find this odd....but maybe that is just me.

Thrawn · « **Reply #84 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:56:37 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
hardly mt. In fact... the fact that violent crimes have increased overall (debateable)

Oh this ought to be good. Go ahead, debate it. Tell us how a bigger number is actually a smaller number.

Monk · « **Reply #85 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:04:15 PM »

Why is everybody worried what we do in our country?

lazs2 · « **Reply #86 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:14:27 PM »

thrawn... all crime and especially violent crime has gone down every year for a decade or more with this one very small blip.... even at that.... crime is not "up" from any year past except the previous one. Not much to base anything on. we still have a huge decrease form the rate of 10 years ago. Firearms accidents continue to go down per capita.

curval... I agree with you on the IRS thing. many are working to abolish or at least reform it. I am not a fan of the IRS but I do realize that our rates are lower than any socialist country.. You are also correct that it is illegal in most states to fire a gun within city limits except in case of self defense or at a range. That is common sense and courtesy to me. and... In a country as large as this... not a problem. Cleaning my guns at home is a convienience for me. Working on them and reloading are hobbies I enjoy. Clear?

I trust my neigbors. I don't trust criminals tho and we have an abundance here.... big country. I don't see how taking away my guns is going to make our criminals less dangerous or make me any safer from them.

A criminal with a gun in bermuda would have to be on crazy mother... I mean criminals are dumb but... even they can see it's an island right?
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #87 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:17:54 PM »

monk.... i believe that a lot of it is simple envy. I mean.... what is the REAL threat that us having freedom to own firearms poses to the subjects of the UK?
lazs

Curval · « **Reply #88 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:25:05 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
curval... I agree with you on the IRS thing. many are working to abolish or at least reform it. I am not a fan of the IRS but I do realize that our rates are lower than any socialist country.. You are also correct that it is illegal in most states to fire a gun within city limits except in case of self defense or at a range. That is common sense and courtesy to me. and... In a country as large as this... not a problem. Cleaning my guns at home is a convienience for me. Working on them and reloading are hobbies I enjoy. Clear?

I trust my neigbors. I don't trust criminals tho and we have an abundance here.... big country. I don't see how taking away my guns is going to make our criminals less dangerous or make me any safer from them.

A criminal with a gun in bermuda would have to be on crazy mother... I mean criminals are dumb but... even they can see it's an island right?
lazs

My last comment regarding the cleaning of your guns was a cheap shot...I take it back.

Did I see you say that you agree with me on something? My GOD! It's true.

As I said before, and in other posts...I am not suggesting that guns be banned in the US. All I said was that it scares me (someone from an innocent little island 1,000 miles from anywhere) that they are so readily availiable in the States and that it really doesn't surprise me that you have all the gun-related crime in the US because of that.

..and yea, a crimminal with a gun here IS stupid (pre 1971 OR post 1971) given that this place is so small.

midnight Target · « **Reply #89 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:26:46 PM »

So the small blip is due to the economy.... but the 10 year decrease is due to .... concealed carry laws..... I get it.

(picture great big rolleyes here)