Religious T-shirts

[Kieran]

Wow, Fish, I step out for my daily run, and missed the show...

First of all, I thought you knew the Bible better than that. The Bible does not tell everyone to live hand-to-mouth. It doesn't tell everyone to be shouting from street corners. If anything it comes closer to expressing mankind as a body with all the necessary parts- meaning all will work for God, but not all in the same way.

Next, why do I care if I drive people away? Are you kidding me? That is the last thing a Christian wants to do. If I am doing a poor job of witnessing (and it would appear by my performance on this board I have) I would do God and all Christians a big favor and shut up. If God hasn't opened a door for me, my crowbar isn't going to do any good.

Finally, you only know the piece of me revealed on this BBS. I am flawed like anyone else, maybe more so. That said, you don't know how I live my life, how I teach my kids, how I deal with those that wrong me, etc. There is probably where I do my best evangelizing- not that I am even very good at that, but I have my moments.

One thing is for certain I never realized before- we don't even agree on the definition of what the Bible requires of people.

Oops, forgot- of course no hard feelings! Don't think that for a second.

[sling322]

Originally posted by mrfish
what i'd like to see is a bunch of christians out in a cornfield in iowa - living there tonight and somewhere else the next, carrying everything they own on their backs, not knowing if they'd wake up and jesus would be there to settle things out, never knowing exactly how they'd get by or where they'd sleep - moving along preaching about god, spreading the word and all out rejoicing. you know- living like the bible said to-

is there even one christian living that way today in america? i've never seen it - if there was such a movement it might be worth having faith in

no hard feelings i hope

Isnt that kinda like those homeless people you are always complaining about?  I mean they have signs that say "God Bless You", right?  

[mrfish]

Originally posted by sling322
Isnt that kinda like those homeless people you are always complaining about?  I mean they have signs that say "God Bless You", right?  

the winos are homeless -> the christians are homeless-> therefore the winos must be christians

- are you looking at some weird venn diagram or something

[Drunky]

Originally posted by Airhead
I'm just curious why non-believers are "bugged" by Christians

Usually because most discussions from most Christians can translate to "I'm right, you are not, believe what I believe or go to hell to burn forever".  What's funny is that this discussion has occurred between "Christians" of different denominations who worship the "same" God but in just slightly different ways.

As soon as "Christians" from different denominations stop trying to force their faith on me then I, for one, will therefore stop being "bugged".

As a Methodist I can feel empathy for agnostics and atheists.  I certainly don't want a neo-militant religious person "trying to save me" so I can imagine how they feel with an unwelcome and uninvited sermon about how they are wrong and will burn forever unless they change.

It is quite funny though, to ask the zealout during his/her devout sermon, "Did you know that Jesus was Black?"  I don't know if that is true as there are several arguements both pro and con about it but that usually shuts them up and puts them into a tail spin

[sling322]

Originally posted by mrfish
the winos are homeless -> the christians are homeless-> therefore the winos must be christians

- are you looking at some weird venn diagram or something

Well....he did turn water into wine didnt he?  I think I remember that story.  

[mrfish]

no kidding hey wait i take it back lemme in:)

[AKIron]

Originally posted by mrfish
tell you what kieran -

what i'd like to see is a bunch of christians out in a cornfield in iowa - living there tonight and somewhere else the next, carrying everything they own on their backs, not knowing if they'd wake up and jesus would be there to settle things out, never knowing exactly how they'd get by or where they'd sleep - moving along preaching about god, spreading the word and all out rejoicing. you know- living like the bible said to-

is there even one christian living that way today in america? i've never seen it - if there was such a movement it might be worth having faith in

no hard feelings i hope

No real need for Christians to spread the word in America as it has pretty much been covered, many times over. You will find some Christians doing the sort of thing you mentioned in many third world countries. Some of which (middle eastern)  at peril to their very lives.

[marauder]

Hey Texace if you ever wondered what thread hijacking is... NOW YOU KNOW.         sheesh

[texace]

Yeah...I figured this would happen, just not to this extent. However...if this is the way the thread went...I'll voice my opinion.

Do I believe that other religios are wrong? No, I don't. Do I believe that all those who follow a religion are dumb? No, I don't. I am the kind of guy who sits back and watches the action from afar...as it should be. I, however, have noticed that the only people I've ever been irritated with over something they tell me or something they're trying to "sell" me are Christians.

Why? In my mind, the Christians (not all of em) believe that their reigion is superior, cause they have Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Some like to try and tell someone else what religion they should follow, becuase Jesus loves them. If that's the case he loves everyone, right? So these people tell me that believing in Jesus will save my soul from eternal damnation? Why must I wait to be saved? Do Christians believe that God will help them in life?

To me, the answer is no. I have always tried to look on the spiritual side of things, to see if God could help. A year ago, I gave up. Same reason my aunt did (she did cause her and her family prayed and prayed for the life of a loved one, only to have him die right in front of them)

DO I want to force my beliefs on others? No, I do not. I've always lothed people who told me what I need to believe in. I've been told several times that I'd go to Hell (the Christian Hell, mind you) and had my car keyed at school over my beliefs.

We may be the most civilized Christian nation on earth, so why must we deliver our payrolls in armored cars?

Look...I do not bash what someone believes in, as I tihnk it's not right to tell someone what or who they should follow. Why can't others do the same? Seems to me that there's be less pissed off people if other religions didn't force their beliefs on us, trying to change us.

Don't you think?

[funkedup]

You need to put yourself into the shoes of the person wearing the shirt.  Read my first post and imagine yourself in that situation.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by texace
I, however, have noticed that the only people I've ever been irritated with over something they tell me or something they're trying to "sell" me are Christians.

You have never had to deal with insurance salespeople? Mortgage brokers? Carpet cleaners? Windshield replacement specialists? Telemarketers? Hey, I get the JW's at my door but they're polite when I say I have a religion but thank you very much, and in fact I wish the other solicitors who ring my doorbell or phone were as courteous and could take "no" for an answer.

I don't feel superior over anyone because I'm Christian- in fact I believe there are many paths to the truth but Jesus Christ is the path I have chosen. By all means, seek enlightment wherever you can. Christ talked about the common golden thread through all religions and beliefs so I respect the path you choose to guide you through your life and don't feel superior to you at all nor feel I am exalted above you. I believe we will all be judged by what is in our heart, not what is in our words, and if anyone feels like we won't be judged at all then I'm cool with that, if it's what you think then I hope it's the solution you get.

Seriously, I'm not here to "sell" anything. Mrfish seems to think we believers have a responsibility to debate him, but his ideas of debate on this subject are clever comments depitcting Christians as being insecure, weak, superstitious, different from the mainstream, self righteous, detatched, out of touch fanatics who want to shove God down your throats through clever manipulation of the judicial system where prayer might be once again allowed in public schools.... and in fact if we DON'T fight for these ideals and the conversion of every man woman and child to Christianity we somehow aren't good Christians... as is written in the Book of Mrfish.  Amazing that a self proclaimed agnostic/athiest can dictate the narrow guidelines of what he believes our Christian thinking should be based upon his understanding of Christianity. Amazing more is that he calls us  "narrow minded."

[mrfish]

again, i'm not an "atheist/agnostic" any more than you are a "christian/moslem" - i'm just an agnostic-period. if you want to make the case that you aren't narrow minded then you should start by learning the distinction between the two.

where did jesus talk about any golden thread among different religions? i'm unfamiliar with that passage.

you say you believe in all these different paths to enlightenment or the truth - is that an official bible view or is that an american-pseudo-christian-pop-culture-watered-down-to-be-nice-to-everyone view? maybe you could show me some passages since i am so direly uneducated in the matter-

you can't change a clause here or a passage there - jesus was pretty clear i thought about his requirements - you have to accept jesus as  the one and only true god and you have to be baptized and follow the the commandments at bare minimum.

if you are following the "golden thread" of buddhism or druidism or whatever, then you ain't following it to heaven mac because those enlightened folk straight up can't get in. i know in your view they do but we're talking about christian doctrine, not your unique more tolerant view.

you can want it to be that way all day long, but you're either following some new 'jesus-based' or 'jesus-inspired' religion or 'based on a true story by jesus' or you're following the bible as written. i don't see it as open for argument, it just says right there to believe in jesus specifically or perish into eternal suffering.

the message i took from the new testament was one of absolute faith and urgency and passion - the common christian viewpoint today is one of caution, passisivity, and reserve.

you can hammer my interpretation of the bible all you want but i don't see how you can read the gospels, especially mark's gospel and feel any other way. i think the message of the gospel is frankly too demanding for today's sluggish pepsi swilling luxury christian.

today's christian is willing to say that prayer shouldn't be in school or the ten commandments on the wall and they're all embarassed to drop down on their knees at the mall and pray in front of everyone or sing a song to jesus on the sidewalk on your way to work.....why?

if you believe it's true then why comprimise? you want people to have faith in your religion but you're all low on faith and damned near embarassed of your religions sometimes. like i said, i don't see one single christian living like the disciples and early christians did, just a bunch of excuses as to why it can't be done.

[Kieran]

Which way is it? Are Christians too pushy, or or they too passive? Honestly, I can't decide what people think. The one thing I can discern from here is I have never done a bit of good talking about it with the people here. Perhaps people reading the thread and not posting may feel differently, perhaps not, but I am not divine and cannot tell. My sneaking suspicion is I haven't done too well.

You think Jesus never shook his head and walked away? Know where the phrase "No man is a prophet in his home town" came from? Or the phrase "Shake the dust from your sandles when you leave town"?

Look, I'd agree Christians shouldn't be embarassed about Jesus. I'd just as quickly say they shouldn't push people away from Jesus by being an embarassment.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by mrfish
you are the ones trying to get your rules on our school walls, you are the ones trying to get our kids praying to your god every morning, you are the ones lobbying congress, funding laws that support your positions in states other than your own, you're the ones always asking for our money, going door to door etc etc etc

[/b]
If you think about this for more than one second, you will realize that "we" are the ones who are trying to get our rules on our school walls since our kids go to school too. And suddenly there is something wrong with lobbying? Or does that just apply to Christians?

what you see as an attack is a defense! at least we (agnostics etc) don't burn you at the stake like you did to us. you've got no right to complain when people fight back - many of us don't want your nonsense in this country and the harder you push the more we'll resist - period. if you see it as an attack then good. your positions are weak and flacid and should be once and for all put to rest.

[/b]
Yeah, bring up something that happened 300 odd years ago. Great line of defense. Where are you on the reparations issue btw? As for your declaration of war against Christianity...seek professional help.

you want us to swallow these wacky off-the-wall views based on fear of mystic punishment and fear of almighty god's watchful eye but you can't prove anything and that blind fear-based mysticism has no place in this world so take it elsewhere - you're no victims not by a long shot so take off that crown of thorns and make your case -

[/b]The difference between you and me is that I know that I'm right and that you're wrong. If you are an agnostic, that means you dont believe in anything...correct? Well, good luck proving that you are right and I'm wrong then... since we all know how easy it is to prove that something is non-existant I mean. So even if we would take this to the philosophical level, you lose. But the thing you fail to realize is that religion is not about physical evidence, it is about faith. For some reason that seems to bother you.

And respectfully, it is not up to you to decide what this world needs or doesnt need.

i'm ready for a brave new world of personal responsibility not your old scared world.

[/b]
You are living in the world of personal responsibility already. Enjoy.

[popeye]

"Yeah, bring up something that happened 300 odd years ago."

Maybe something that happened 2000 years ago, would be more persuasive?

"If you are an agnostic, that means you dont believe in anything...correct?"

No.  An agnostic BELIEVES that the existence of a God is unknown, and probably unknowable.

"good luck proving that you are right and I'm wrong then... since we all know how easy it is to prove that something is non-existant"

As you point out, it is not possible to prove something is non-existant, therefore the burden of proof is on believers.

"So even if we would take this to the philosophical level, you lose."

Nope.  You can play the "faith" card, but "reason" belongs to the other side.  See above.