152 ?

[Wilbus]

Never mind...

[Furious]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Never mind...

Wilbus,

I think a large part of the problem is this.  Pyro chooses the data based on sources that he does not divulge.   Players on the board may not be using this same set of data when discussing FM accuracy.

This is what I think occurs at HTC:

A problem is posted to the BBS.  Pyro checks his data for faults, then has HT check his model to see if it matches.  If Pyro is satisfied that the model meets the specs of his chosen set of data, no fix, no answer.

If a problem is found, a fix is made.



The key being the data sets used by Pyro to devise the FM may not match user data sets.  This does not make it wrong.



F.

[Kaz]

Ummm how exactly is the 152 porked? honest question, I've flown the 152 maybe twice in over a year of flying AH.

[Gatr]

Kaz,
  From most of the things I have read it is way down on power.
There are other folks here that know well better than I, the other things not quite correct . For me I would consider it a LARGE step in the right direction if we could crank up the horsepower. I really have no clue from a programing side what this takes to do, but it would make me happy.... Give me more power I'll pay more perkies.... POWER POWER POWER..
 ohhh wait that's another problem I have
Gatr

[Urchin]

I don't know if it is 'porked' or not.  I'm not real fond of it, the 190D-9 and 109-G10 are both more formidable (as are the P-51, La7, Yak9, Typhoon, F4U (any of em), Spit IX, N1K2, probably others that I can't pull off the top of my head).  

I guess people expect it to be a 'world-beater' since it is the last of the 190s, and when it sucks they think somethings wrong with it.  It really wasn't designed for the MA though, it was designed for fighting at 30k+.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Charon
If they solved every LW problem today, I have a feeling that there would be a new list tomorrow from the same people demanding immediate action on the FW-190A9 or whatever. I certainly won't speak for Pyro, or HT, but if I was in charge of the list and time budgeting, I might even put these changes off until last. Why reward tantrums? How easy is it to do business if the community, by and large, begins to understand that the way to successfully meet personal gameplay goals is to whine, screech, insult, subtly put down, etc. until they receive a reward?

Charon

Well said, Charon, and it bears repetition.

This is my perception as well. IMO, after having been here since Beta, it seems there is simply no satisfying this part of the player base. No matter what plane or vehicle is added, it is it is incorrectly modeled or "not enough". If another country gets any plane, the development time should have been spent on German equipment. Without doubt, they are the most vociferous unhappy element on the BBS and I think the continual negativism does have an effect on the BBS and the game itself.

IMO, of course.

Further, I agree with the importance of not rewarding undesirable behavior. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Most parents know that if you start giving into a tantrum-throwing 2 year old what you will get? More tantrums.

I'd like to see player polls upon entry to the online game that allowed you to prioritize 10 aircraft or vehicles with respect to what you'd like to see next. Let HTC pick the 10 choices. They know where the game is headed and what types will be needed.

After the introduction, if folks DO have questions or different data to offer, let them do so WITHOUT the "poor, poor pitiful me" aspect that is so common; without the accusations of bias.

Then let's all just play the game. Because it IS a game and a darn good one.

You want a "real" FW? They're selling some "new" ones for a real fair price.. but it's a bit more than $15 a month and you won't get to shoot at anyone.

Just my .02.

Flame on, Mein Herren.

[GRUNHERZ]

"This is my perception as well. IMO, after having been here since Beta, it seems there is simply no satisfying this part of the player base. No matter what plane or vehicle is added, it is it is incorrectly modeled or "not enough". If another country gets any plane, the development time should have been spent on German equipment. Without doubt, they are the most vociferous unhappy element on the BBS and I think the continual negativism does have an effect on the BBS and the game itself."



Toad you speak as the LW contingent is the only one asking for changes and have FM concerns or that if they are the only ones who would come up with new ideas or requests in the future.  

I guess you were never there when P47D11 was intrudced and everyone in that "part of the player base" complained about propellors.

I guess you were busy at work when Spit 14 was released.

I guess you were busy with house chores when A20 was being whined about for not having a belly gun.

Or that guy F4UDOA, very didicated guy but never seems very happy bout F4U FM. Just cant please him.

Or where were you when all the F6F stall concerns were raised

Or what abnout all those fellas who just wont leave HTC alone to choose his planes and always ask for some LF spit?

Now tell me how you missed all the complaints about choice of Kate and Val by our japanese plane fans. They really want late war models.

And there are all these guys who always wanths the name of a certain Japanes plane changed, how silly is that. I guess they will never be happy.

Surely you did not miss constant calls for special Japanese type torpedos?

And I'm sure we are all just dying to hear from what kept you away from the BBS during the months long P38 fiasco. Family emergency, I hope all is well now?


Looks like you are really a big Luftwaffe fan Toad, you never even bother to check out threads for any other countries planes. Tell me are you a Bf109 or FW190 fan, I'm just dying to know...

[AKDejaVu]

Sorry grun, most people missed those "other" posts because they were usually kept in the aircraft/vehicles forum and seldomely included an "I QUIT!" or "GODAMMIT HTC I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS!" title.

Oh... and most of the other problems were fixed.  The stall on the F6F... the weak horizontal stab on the P-38... the F4u-1C weight problem... virtually any issue that had solid data and was presented in a non-threatening/non-insulting manner.

There are a few for virtually every type of plane that will never be happy.  I think you are dillusional if you don't realize that the LW has, by far and away, the largest concentration of those disgruntled fans.

AKDejaVu

[Wilbus]

Why would we want to flame you Toad? To me it seams as if you want us to flame you thus give the Luftwhiners and everything you call us a bad rep, sorry won't happen, not this time.

This is my perception as well. IMO, after having been here since Beta, it seems there is simply no satisfying this part of the player base. No matter what plane or vehicle is added, it is it is incorrectly modeled or "not enough". If another country gets any plane, the development time should have been spent on German equipment. Without doubt, they are the most vociferous unhappy element on the BBS and I think the continual negativism does have an effect on the BBS and the game itself.

Uhmmm, well, let me see. IMO all 109's, the 262, Me163, Ju87, Ju88 and basicly all LW planes but the 190/Ta152 are great, the 109 kicks but in most fights, being able to climb, turn, fly slow, fly fast (although poor maneuverabilty) the G10 is possible the best all around airplane in the game for survivability, it's far from the easiest to get kills in and far from the most dangerous to engage but it has a high survivability. 262 kicks but no question about it. Me163 climbs like a rocket (it is a rocket). Ju87... well, it's a Ju87 as is the Ju88 a Ju88.

Charon, Ta152 issue have been going on a long time, lots of proof from authentic Focke Wulf documents have been posted. It's not as we have requested it to be fixed right away or tomorrow, just another asumption from your side.

Urchin . The Ta152 was indeed designed as a high altitude fighter/interceptor/escort fighter (thus the big tanks) but it beat about every opponent it engaged at tree top level aswell (where it fought the most), can read combat reports if ya don't believe me and all this while being VASTLY outnumbered AT ALL TIMES.

It climbs way too bad specially at alt, engine performance lacks more and more the higher it gets. It's top speed is reached at 35,000 feet instead of 41,000 feet. This easily proves that the plane lacks the Gm1 boost as, 35,000 was its maximum boost altitude and also the altitude where it gained the highest speed using the MW50 injection.
Combat reports also state that the maneuverabilty was supreme to all fighters it engaged, saying that they could with eas engage Yak 9's, turn hard and still come out with a good amount of E left, they compared it to the 190 A of which they said that it bled E terribly in turns.

The Ta152 in AH bleeds E in turns like a brick wall just like all other 190's.

So basicly... that's all that's wrong with it.

Furious good answer which kind of upsets me more IF you are right.

Quite obviously the data is based on post war allied documents (who didn't care to test much more then Jets after the war as they didn't need it). No time was spent evaluting the planes that weren't jet/rocket powered.

Lots of documents and combat/test reports by German surviving WW2 pilots state that the Ta152 was the best germany had, far superior to the 190 D9 and far superior to all enemy fighters they eno bigtoeered (P47, Yak, P51, Spit 14, tempest etc, they had kills of all of them). This is also suported by the fact that they were constantly flying totally outnumbered against impossible odds. It is allso suported by the fact that The Ta152's were the last planes except for the 262 to be taken out of action.

Just my opinion of course, and sorry to say, there is nothing that can convince me that the FM of the Ta152 in AH is anywhere near correct.

[Toad]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ


Toad you speak as the LW contingent is the only one asking for changes and have FM concerns or that if they are the only ones who would come up with new ideas or requests in the future.  

No.

What I said was that imo after participating in and observing this BBS since Beta the most vociferous, unhappy element on the BBS are the "LW" contingent. And there is no satisfying them.

I'll stand by that.

Of all the rest of your diatribe, there's one important part to point out. Take a look at all F4UDOA's posts. Compare them to say Nath, Mandoble or Ram when he was at his "finest moment".

Note the tone of F4U's posts, the lack of accusatory, inflammatory wording and the ready availability of the source data he uses to make his case.

The same could be said of Mitsu and others.

Yes, there are some LW in this vein but there are FAR MORE of the negative ones in the LW group than any other "group".

IMO, of course. No one's saying not to make suggestions; all anyone's asking is to drop the persecution complex and be polite. I know that's hard for some; in fact, you seem to struggle with polite, gentlemanly debate.

You can assume that everyone jumped on the LW contingent without reason or you can think about why it came about and how you can change that perception of the LW.

I had an old friend who led the Union and one of his cautions was:

If one guy tells you you're a horse's a**, laugh it off.

If two guys tell you you're a horse's a**, stop and consider what you've been doing.

If three guys tell you you're a horse's a**, better go shop for a saddle!

You can go around crying that everyone is not nice to the LW or you can ask yourself how the LW got into that position.

Since you are clearly a sympathizer and have in fact participated in the LW hand-wringing if I'm not mistaken, feel free to have another opinion.

[GRUNHERZ]

Everyone has opinions Toad... Just strange you never read anything but LW plane posts..

Anyway is it 109 or 190 for our our biggest LW fan?

[Toad]

I read the Aircraft and Vehicles Forum, Grun.

I still stand by what I said. After all, A&V is where the truth of the matter is on display.

The LW made their own bed, chum.

[Hortlund]

"The LW" ceased to exist in 1945...you are aware of that right?

Why are you grouping us together like that? Do you remember Festers post after 1.10 came out? Something along the lines of "No green P38 in this release, you all suck, I quit" (If I remember correctly). Does that mean that all allied flyers should be grouped together like a bunch of tards too?

[Steve]

I think the pony is porked.  

[AKDejaVu]

Originally posted by Hortlund
[BDo you remember Festers post after 1.10 came out? Something along the lines of "No green P38 in this release, you all suck, I quit" (If I remember correctly). Does that mean that all allied flyers should be grouped together like a bunch of tards too? [/B]

Fester was pretty much on his own with that one and took alot of heat from everyone on it.

I guess the big difference was that when fester posted an obnoxious insulting post to the folks at HTC, he didn't have a contingent there to support him with "he has a point".

One person did not give the LW fans their reputation.

AKDejaVu