Author Topic: In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year  (Read 2382 times)

Offline Kieran

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2003, 02:16:27 PM »
You in effect have a law that had no impact on the crime rate past, present or future, and only penalized law abiding citizens. It makes sense how? It's popular why? What is it gun advocates understand that others do not?

Offline lazs2

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2003, 02:35:52 PM »
angus.... then see?   it all works out.   you not living here (and especially not voting here) works out for both of us.   We can have our firearms and you can have your envy.
lazs

Offline Angus

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2003, 09:16:18 PM »
lazs2 and  rc51
 
 I will have to reply to you. Your statements are now becoming temper based and you are throwing stuff around according to that.

1st: (and thereby also quoting myself: "hell, a mere .38 probably does more damage to the human body at short range than my hunting rifle! "
Did I tell the caliber of my "hunting rifle?" ??
naa. ok, will do so now. It's a mere 22 magnum, lol.
Very little punch, very small bullet, but with it I still am able to hit better at 100 yards than any 38...yes. And at 200 yards I am able to hit you in the head, at 100 in the eye ;)
Serves me allright as my hunting rifle (birds)..hehe
Will do also if somebody enters my hall in a bad arse mood, however I cannot conceil it.
Now again, please point out for my how useful a handgun is, since you mentioned my ignorance of the subject?
1b: I know my little stuff about how firearms affect the tender flesh and bones. I've shot horses, cows, sheep, geese, ptarmigans (grouse), gulls, ravens etc etc (dunno the english words) with a few sorts of calibers. (comes with being a farmer, sadly). Brainparts and splinters you know, and still the loadout and size of handgun ammo like 38 and especially 45 or 357 just amaze me. Made to rip and tear/beyond repair, it is very much enough for killing bigstock, say alone a human.
And a big, wide bullet with low velocity can make some ping-pong with you that a fast light one will not do.....

2nd: "We can have our firearms and you can have your envy. "
This is not the way it is, but "You can keep your corpses and also my pity".  For you are the ones  to feel sorry for, - its been years since anybody got shot dead in my country! We only had ONE convicted murder last year, some manslaughter, but none by a firearm. Not a single bankrobbery (only had 2 gun armed ones so far, - 1st one was done by an american, lol), no shoototout, Not a single act of terrorism (again, the 1st and only so defined were done by americans, ROFL), the police does not need to nor carry firearms, etc, etc. Yes, my friend I envy you indeed. After all, in a lapse of 6 years, you will have more  people slain by a bullet than in even the biggest battles of WW2...(wild guess and a flamer, hehe, but eat it anyway)


So....Beetle rulez :):) :)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Masherbrum

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2003, 11:32:22 PM »
When America was running the convoy's in Iceland, were you ignorant rants prevelant?  I doubt.  When BOMBS not handgun murders were rampant in 1940 over Britain, were these pathetic attitudes voiced?  I doubt it.  I do believe all around London, undetonated bombs are all over.  

I think you fashionable "America bashers" need to get a life.  Canada, I can live with them, since I am a Canucks fan and have been for 29 years living in Michigan.  

Oh yeah, I come from a anti-gun, anti-hunting family.  I hunt and love my Heckler & Kock USP .45.  It has NEVER killed anyone, why shouldn't be allowed to own it?   Please, I won't bother responding to furter ignorance.   Rip on your own countries, I could, but I have class and don't.  Don't know you either.  Get a life.

Anti-Gun politics ALWAYS NO BEARING on current issues.

Case in Point.

two years ago CCW legislation was in limbo at the State Sentate.

I had to sit through a disgusting anti-gun campaign at my church.  The SOLE ARGUMENT of this was the Mt. Morris school shooting, where a kid grabbed a .22 handgun from his Uncles CRACKHOUSE, where it WASN'T even registered.  The kid shot another at school over a petty issue.  Mind you this has NOTHING TO DO WITH CCW ISSUES AT ALL.  The long was long, they got the signatures, not mine.  Comparing a crackhouse laden school shooting to a CCW issue was and is not relavant.  But humans are easily duped sometimes thinking they are doing the right thing, like the Native Americans running herds of Bison off of cliffs.   Oh, the CCW legislation passed anyways.  

To get a CCW, you had(ve) to still pass a THOROUGH FBI background check.  The county I live in wouldn't even allow them.   When Karl Marlenga became Macomb County Prosecutor, the CCW permit issuances rose dramatically.  The Crime Rate DROPPED 86%.  Not one issue has spawned from these save two idiots that brandished and lost ALL priviledges to own a gun, and the CCW priviledge, since 1995.  

Karaya2
« Last Edit: January 06, 2003, 11:45:40 PM by Masherbrum »
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Offline crowbaby

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2003, 07:33:25 AM »
Guns are designed to maim and kill people, why would any emotionally mature adult want one?

Don't give me the self defense roadkill, by the way, i've surivived long enough without having to maim or kill anyone, and i've probably seen more toejam than most. I've lived on the streets of Dublin when it was Europe's bigest entrepot for drugs, in Newcastle as a student and in South Manchester during the highest rates of gang and gun crime. I've had a gun pulled on me, I've had the toejam kicked out of me more than i've kicked it out of others, I've had my nose broken seven times. I still see absolutely no need to carry a weapon, i say this in the hopes of skipping the usual ad hominem attacks.

Offline Angus

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2003, 07:37:37 AM »
Dohh,Masherbrum etc this is becoming too silly.
Iceland was occupied by the British, and thank god that  not so many firearms were around in town at the time, - it probably prevented shootouts in the  first hours of confusion, while the army was just pouring in.
Most of the convoys were british, while americans entered escort duties and took over the island before Pearl Harbour.
Now war is war, and even us Icelanders had the sour taste of that. One of my great uncles was in the RAF as a volunteer, 2 of my great uncles were killed by German U-boats, and relatively we lost a lot more people than USA!
The occupation force, first British, then American, behaved very well, and there were very few conflicts between us and them, - much more friendship and gratefulness.
Can't see where handguns could have improved anything in there!
Anyway, my point is merely about handguns, and not hunting weapons. After all, I am a hunter!
And this thread was raised about limitations of civil arms ownership, not a military issue.
Handguns of the most common calibers are mostly useful against people, - that's my point.  Why flood your society with a gadget who's sole "usefulness" is to pop or threaten someone in a hurry?
Handguns are fun, but sadly they are a lot more useful by the baddies, and them being around, no matter how hard-to-get the licence is, a lot of them will always find a  way to the baddies. Sad but true.
And here is something for Rc51:
quote:
"We are the most heavly armed country on the planet thats one reasone why we will never be invaded easely.
I think it sad that the peoples of europe have to go thrue all the watermelon just to own a hunting weapon but it was you who let you governments strip you of your rights a long time ago.
Say if someday some nut (HITLER RING A BELL) comes alond and says gee i dont like those britts i think there weak and i am going to gas them all to hell.
What will you as citizene do then??
Cant always count on your military can you.
Oh I know what you will do you will call good old uncle sam and his country of pistol packin cowboys to come save your butts once again!!"

ROFL, did you read this!
Basically silly of me trying to answer this babble, but I shall try.
It was the British who declared war on Hitler. USA did not join, but started selling weapons to the Brits. The trade was cash, British firms and assets in the US, and intelligence. If not for Roosevelt, USA might have stayed out completely or even been on the German Side, and if not for Pearl Harbour, I wonder also if the USA had joined at all....
The Brits also bombed Germany heavier than the US did,  and the RN was a more decisive factor in the North-Atlantic Campaign than the USN. Brits squeezed the Germans on to the run in North Africa, and the Brits held the naval supremacy in the Med.
Those poor poor defenceless Brits waiting for the gas, being saved by armed US civilians...
Now the USA is hard to invade from anywhere (save Canada, hehe) due to the sheer distance from other possibly hostile countries. And in case a Panzer knocks on your door, no handgun is gonna save you.
So: wanna arm the nation properly with bazookas, SAM's, heavy MG's and landmines? Wonder what civilians would be the first to use such.........

:D
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Masherbrum

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2003, 08:13:51 AM »
I'm confiedent in my shooting.  I have that edge on a gang-banging POS who holds the gun to the side or up in air pointing at an angle.  I made the reference to the handguns.  

After ALL OF THIS what is Karaya2 trying to say?   The one thing that ignorant human beings seem to ignore.  It is far EASIER to blame the HANDGUN, rather than the PEOPLE behind the trigger.   :rolleyes:

Enjoy life ;)

Karaya2

Like I said before, my gun has NEVER been pointed at another human being.  Will it?  I pray not, but toejam happens.

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Offline lazs2

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2003, 08:24:49 AM »
angus... I can hit fairly well out to 400 yards with my 44 mag handgun.   I think that not being in a gun culture has made it so that you have no understanding of guns, especially handguns.   when hunting wild boar or bear in the U.S. we carry large caliber handguns like 44's as "backup"  I have killed a wild boar that was gutshot with a ought six and was in the group... the rifles were missing the fast moving and close in animal..  One shot from the 44 was all it took.   My brother in law killed a bear on a path with his 44..  he drew and fired.   His scoped 270 was still slinged and on his shoulder.   Alsakan guides still carry handguns..   In a home a rifle is clumsy especially in the dark.   An inrtruder with a knife or club or even bare hands could kill you or your loved ohnes after being shot by a 22.... why you have this aversion to tools is beyond me.   you obviously know very little about handguns and what you know is all wrong.    

I don't care if I kill an intruder but I want him to cease.  large bore handguns work well for this... Your own government learned this while they were "civilizing" other cultures... the 455 webley is not a 22.  If you need to know anything about handguns just ask... If someone here doesn't know the answer off the tip if their tongue we can look it up in a few minutes.
lazs

Offline Angus

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2003, 08:38:27 AM »
Been on  a wild boar hunt with a .357 as a backup....I must confess that there is a practical application then.
Hmm. We also have single shot and rifled .22 pistols  here. Butcher's guns or sheep guns we name them, for that is what they are for. Once shot a raven from a fencepole from a 100 yards with one, not sure which one was more surprized, me or the raven! Caught another one flying past the window by shooting through it as well, hehe.
(ravens are a pest up here)
Now I cannot totally agree that I come from a non-gun culture. We are simply deprived of multi shot handguns and automatic rifles (beyond 22, or lever op 22 magnum). So its a different gun culture, and the bottom line about it is that PEOPLE DON'T GET SHOT HERE nearly as much as in your country. I would call that a better culture :)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline lazs2

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2003, 08:48:58 AM »
angus... 22's kill a lot of people here.   they are also fun to shoot and to learn with.   I have nothing against 22's mighrt even have a couple.... They are not the best tool for the job in most cases tho.   I believe in using the right tool.

as for concealed.... It is proven that concealed handguns are very uwseful here and that they stop crime... I feel better in a place where I know some of the people around me may be armed... In Israel I bet they feel safer knowing thier fellow citizens are armed.   It is all a matter of what you are used to.   and... a small matter of freedom and our constitution.   Believe what you want about what is best for us but we will make our own decisions and you have added nothing new or even reasonable to the gun ban crap we hear all the time from some of our own clueless (know nothing about the very thing they are trying to ban) citizens.  For concealed carry a handgun is the perfect tool.
lazs

Offline crowbaby

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2003, 08:50:00 AM »
>>It is far EASIER to blame the HANDGUN, rather than the PEOPLE behind the trigger<<
Oh no, i blame the people behind the trigger.
That would be anyone who researches weapons, manufactures them, votes for them, markets them, sells them, buys them, owns them, glorifies them in film and video.


>>gang-banging POS who holds the gun to the side or up in air pointing at an angle.<<
I think you'll generally find that the gang members in your inner city ghettoes are generally only encouraged to kill each other. Unless you're an underprivileged coloured kid brought up in some american hellhole with no hope, you're statistically quite unlikely to get shot like this.



>>I have killed a wild boar that was gutshot with a ought six and was in the group... <<
Wow, and you admit to this? Why don't you pick on someone your own size. Go cruise missile some peasants who are already being repressed by their own U.S. funded and armed government.

>>why you have this aversion to tools is beyond me.<<
Ludicrous argument, if you apply this to guns you might as well apply it to someone who keeps a nuke in their garage.


>>I don't care if I kill an intruder but I want him to cease.<<
If you've got a lot of murderous intruders then there's probably something seriously wrong with your neighbourhood. Perhaps it's got a highly developed gun culture. Also, if you think it's likely that someone will break into your house, then it's highly irresponsible of you to keepo a gun for them to steal.

I still see only two arguments for owning a gun:
1. i want to kill someone.
2. it's my toy, it makes me feel like a man when it goes bang, you can't take it away from me.
sadly, the mentality of the people who use defense number 2 means they're quite likely to flip over into 1 anyway.

Offline lazs2

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2003, 08:51:05 AM »
so angus... if we banned swimming of any sort and you had thousands of deaths more per year from swimming than we did as a result.... would ours be a better "culture"?
lazs

Offline lazs2

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2003, 08:57:03 AM »
crowbaby... why does anyone need a car with more than say ... 50 horsepower?   makes em feel like a man?    why don't we all wear uniforms?  

yeah... we should do like you do in safe ol limeyland and get cages installed in our homes that we can hide behind when our house is burglarized... LOL... in your gunless culture you have 50% of your burglaries that are "hot"   the fact that so many of us are armed is exactly why we have safe neigborhoods... your country is the proof.   I put it to you that you have no idea what the U.S. is all about or even like.
lazs

Offline Dowding (Work)

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2003, 08:57:20 AM »
Quote
if we banned swimming of any sort and you had thousands of deaths more per year from swimming than we did as a result.... would ours be a better "culture"?



By extension of your piss-poor logic, you're saying that most gun deaths in America come from lack of education about guns?

Offline crowbaby

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In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2003, 09:05:20 AM »
>>why does anyone need a car with more than say ... 50 horsepower? makes em feel like a man? why don't we all wear uniforms? <<

Hey, i'd actually agree with you on the car front! Stupidly big engines just mean more pollution and America has to go to war more often to ensure its oil supplies.

However, the big difference is that cars and clothes are not designed for the sole and express purpose of killing people.

Again, if your society has degraded to the extent that the only thing preventing burglaries is the burglar's fear of getting shot, then there's something very wrong. It wasn't always like that. In any case, research has shown that most criminals are convinced that they will not be caught, deterrents don't work, only changing social conditions to remove the impetus toward crime.