Author Topic: In Britain we've never had more than 100 gun murders in any year (Read 2339 times)

Tilt · « **Reply #75 on:** January 08, 2003, 09:38:59 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
If you had as vibrant an economy as ours you might feel differently

Whilst the average US standard of living (convertable income) is higher than the UK.......... I do not think that vibrance of economy is so different........... and I believe has little to do with it......

Wealth distribution in the UK is not greatly different a curve as that found in the US its just lower down the x axis........... hence the "wealth motive" as an incentive to crime is IMO much the same........

in fact reading on Bush's latest attempts to stimulate US economy (which is currently falling faster than the UK's) i note that like the UK, the US 's main flywheel is retail sales............. it has always been thus for the US and recently (15/18 years) for the UK.

However US retail sales have never needed propping up in a post war US economy..............(Reagans tax measures were to stimulate votes and government revenue (which Bush senior then had to pay for))............ now Bush junior seems to be doing just that......... very concerning long term when you look at the US national debt per capita compared to other G7's.............

Concerning because the US imports far more goods than it exports, it technology and manufacturing knowhow exports are fueled by its own demand for the goods made by those foriegn customers.

Whilst having massive energy wealth, US consumption of energy is so high the balance is tipped unless energy efficiency is brought to european levels or better. (interms of total KW's per capita)

A dollar in free fall would change the shape of worl politcs considerably............ so yanks..........please keep buying those toys

I digressed.....sorry....US national debt has always worried me...........

lazs2 · « **Reply #76 on:** January 08, 2003, 02:07:47 PM »

tilt... there is more to the economy than simply what each person makes and the way it is distributed.. firt of all.... you need to factor in how much of it you get to keep and then what the goods cost if.... individuals are what is being considered here. If you make say 30K a year in either country but keep 90% of it in one and 70% in another then they are not the same standard of living... if gasoline costs 1.50 in one and 4.50 in the other they are not the same. If one has an electronics store the size of my livingroom with very expensive goods and no choices and the other has ones bigger than football stadiums with cheap goods and huge variety they are not the same... They are not both "vibrant" economies IMO.
lazs

Tilt · « **Reply #77 on:** January 08, 2003, 02:28:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
tilt... there is more to the economy than simply what each person makes and the way it is distributed.. lazs

Dowding · « **Reply #78 on:** January 08, 2003, 03:12:54 PM »

Quote

tilt... there is more to the economy than simply what each person makes and the way it is distributed.. firt of all.... you need to factor in how much of it you get to keep and then what the goods cost if.... individuals are what is being considered here. If you make say 30K a year in either country but keep 90% of it in one and 70% in another then they are not the same standard of living... if gasoline costs 1.50 in one and 4.50 in the other they are not the same. If one has an electronics store the size of my livingroom with very expensive goods and no choices and the other has ones bigger than football stadiums with cheap goods and huge variety they are not the same... They are not both "vibrant" economies IMO.

You haven't actually spent much time over here at all, or it was a long time ago. We do have huge warehouse sized electronics stores almost everywhere. There has been large decreases in prices over the last ten years. Due to the nature of the electronics market, it could never be as cheap as the US or Japan. Who does much retail shopping nowadays? I buy online - I get more choice and usually cheaper, especially electronics. They days of small, specialised electronic shops have gone really.

You might keep more of your wages, but have to spend it on things like health insurance - which is where our extra tax goes. It's swings and roundabouts.

Although we could never match the US in terms of size of economy, we have lower unemployment than the US, low interest rates and low inflation. Things are quite good at the moment, especially compared to continental Europe.

lazs2 · « **Reply #79 on:** January 09, 2003, 08:53:18 AM »

You don't know much about how it is here then either... most get health insurance as part of their salary... even fast food places offer health care (why not, their employees are young and healthy) older people get medicare and those with no income get free healthcare... Even factoring in healthcare we have higher salaries and keep more of em... out benifiets portion of our salaries is not taxed either.

You are not seriously saying that there is any comparisson bettween socialst england and the U.S. so far as price and availability goes on goods are you? I have seen your "shopping centers"... not much to choose from by our standards.
lazs

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #80 on:** January 09, 2003, 09:19:20 AM »

You're still paying for the health insurance - it's still coming out of your wages. How about higher education? How much does it cost to get a degree over there? All these things are paid for through higher taxes over here. Swings and roundabouts.

I wonder how Americans per capita go to university, compared to Britain? It would be an interesting comparison of funding system.

Of course the US is a richer country - your population is nearly five times larger. You have huge expanses of land, lots of natural resources. Britain (BTW, refering to England all the time is erroneous - England is only one part of the Union) has neither.

Your point was about electronics stores, implying there are only small shops with poor choice. I'm telling you are wrong. There really is no argument there. Out of town retail parks with large warehouse like stores are everywhere.

Lastly, I wouldn't call Britain, socialist. Labour may be in power, but they occupy the middle ground more than anything. But then expecting you to understand British politics is a bit of a forlorn hope. You're just a typical Yank Brit-basher.

Nashwan · « **Reply #81 on:** January 09, 2003, 10:28:25 AM »

Lazs, the US federal government spends 18.3% of US GDP. The UK government spends 19.3% of British GDP.

Our healthcare is included in that 19.3%, yours isn't included in the US figure (not much of it, anyway)

Steve · « **Reply #82 on:** January 09, 2003, 10:45:45 AM »

Typical yank brit basher... lol Most Americans consider the Brits our brethren....you really need to reign in that temper, Dowding.

Toad · « **Reply #83 on:** January 09, 2003, 10:47:56 AM »

Obviously different governments spend differently on different items and for different reasons.

WineMan · « **Reply #84 on:** January 09, 2003, 10:58:04 AM »

A quick question for you Brits: Do the regular police carry firearms? (didn't notice this point in the thread so far, although I haven't read each and every post) I've been to the U.K. twice now for short periods of time (not long enough to really notice), and lived in Germany doing internships while attending university - I love learning about other cultures.

Anyway - I've always had the understanding that British regular police do not carry firearms. Based upon that assumption, I heard a "joke" if you will, that is meant entirely in jest (for my part) and will now share with the rest of us:

An American police officer apprehending a fleeing criminal:
"Stop or I'll shoot!"

An English police officer apprehending a fleeing criminal:
"Stop! Or I'll say 'Stop' to you again!"

lazs2 · « **Reply #85 on:** January 09, 2003, 11:04:39 AM »

nash... what are you saying? I can't see where that has anythinfg to do with what we are talking about. Our saleries are higher (health care not counted as salary) and our goods are cheaper . We are also allowed to keep more of what we make. What our government spends the money we give them is not relevant to the thread. Although.... we would of course be better off if they spent even less and we gave them even less.

while I agree that our govenment gets too much of our money.... I certainly wouldn't trade for your brand of socialism. We are still much better off.
lazs

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #86 on:** January 09, 2003, 11:08:06 AM »

I wasn't tarring all Americans with the same brush, Steve. But laz posts anti-British crap over and over again on this board. He's a Brit-basher, he's a charicature of a Brit-basher.

Looking at Beetle's posts, he was called an American-basher repeatedly. Many Brits, including me, asked him to tone it down.

Now take Laz' posts. He has repeatedly written stuff that is equally offensive. More so, in fact. Did Beetle ever write anything that could be compared to:

"The UK is a pissant little country"

"England would make a good theme park if it was closer and they put a roof over it."

I could find more of his little gems if I could be arsed.

Did any Americans ask him to be quiet? Did anyone actually challenge what he was/is saying?

No. Anyone want to explain why that is?

Yet as soon as I defend my own country, that's somehow unacceptable? Of course I'm going to lose my temper - or is patriotism an American owned commodity?

lazs2 · « **Reply #87 on:** January 09, 2003, 11:13:34 AM »

are you saying that england wouldn't make a good theme park (assuming that it could be weather proofed)? Are you saying that you wouldn't be better off as employees of some U.S. theme park corporation? The improvement in dental care alone would be worth it I would think.....
lazs

Dowding (Work) · « **Reply #88 on:** January 09, 2003, 11:21:08 AM »

You've got issues, I can see that. I shouldn't give you the opportunity to air them in public.

Steve · « **Reply #89 on:** January 09, 2003, 11:55:19 AM »

Asking Lazs to tone it down would just pull me into an argument with him. If I actually thought he was a person that could be reasoned with, I'd bring it up. Judging by his posts, I wouldn't consider him to be a person who can be swayed beyond his overt distaste for GB. There, now I'm open to Lazs vitriol. As for defending your country, by all means... and with verve.

but that patriotism thing wasn't necessary...I'm not stepping on you like you seem to think I am.