Time for an RPS.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, is your reaction indicating you are flying one of these planes?

I'm still trying to figure out which planes, exactly, turn on a dime, kill in one shot, and never lose E.  I can't think of a single one in the entire game.

I can see how those would be threats to the kind of planes you fly, since they're bound to the laws of physics and, as such, sometimes lose energy and require more than one 20mm shot to kill something.  I understand how it requires enormous skill on your part to fly such a crippled plane in an evironment where other such Newton-ignoring rides exist.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Rude]

Hey Levi...dontcha know? Every plane I fly, never loses E, turns on a dime and I hit all of my adversaries right on top of their pointy little heads with one single shot....it's obviously the pilot who flies the plane and not the other way around....and mandoble still flies like a girlscout....see how simple all of this really is?

[lazs2]

rude... you said it exactly right and, as someone else pointed out... those who fly the early war planes have a lot better handle on it.

I have flown against the tas (modern tas) when they were in 51's and when they fly early war planes... I would  listen to what rude and the 13th guys have to say.   They fight hard and they fly their planes skillfully but.... they fight.   I couldn't agree more that there is nthing wrong with allowing a place where early war planes can have fun flying against planes with some sort of parity.

That is all I have ever said...  In the CT... How popular do you think a ct setup that had one side with planes with a 50mph advantage would be?

I am saying that is is probly time for a change... It is time for some of you to let go of your security blanket and get into a little parity.

as for DMF... he has some "small" skill in early war planes.  I believe that what he does would be more on the line of skillfully useing e than some gamey b & Z or engine shut of and on dueling arena crap.   I would dearly love to see how well mandoble would do in a tour with the spit 5.
lazs

[lazs2]

mandoble... look at my amount of assists before you label such planes as fm2's or -1a's as on ping killers.  
lazs

[Steve]

Parity... how about an arena w/ a 2k ceiling and only FM2's were allowed in it?? Your whines are lame, Lazs.  You can cherry pick in a p40 nearly the same as you can in a p51.  Tell you what, I'll fly an FM2 in the DA.. you fly a pony... you can have a 20k alt advantage...ya won't kill me, 1v1.  If I'm engaged under you, you could get me... but then you could do that in any plane.  You keep saying that you don't care what people fly.. blah blah blah .. but then you want parity,, blah blah blah.. you talk about of both sides of your mouth... effectively reducing your credibility to nil.

[lazs2]

steve... i believe that by your statement your credibility is nill... you say that 1 v 1 I couldn't kill your fm2 in a pony..  you are probly wrong but... say you are right.. so what?  that situation is nothing like the MA...  unless...

you are also saying that you tangled up in a furball, i couldn't swoop down in a pee 51 and take you out or.... that having 4-8 pee 51's and a few doras and tempests above the crowd isn't annoying and unfair?  If you belive that then how would you explain the lack of people trying for "streaks" in untouchable fm2's?   Since the fm2 is untouchable and takes so little skill.... then there should be a lot of guys using it to garner streaks I would think but...

if you are unable to grasp what I have said I can't help you but if you simply haven't read it... here is a recap.

parity is what I am after... I also don't want to limit anyones choice... in an "early war area" within the arena you could fly any plane you liked.... you simply could not fly late war monsters with huge inherant advantages in the early war area.  simple enough?

there seems to be a pattern here... those who fly late war planes think everything is fine for the early war guys.
lazs

[Steve]

Lazs. you're never going to get it are you?  Let's go w/ your scenario... a mixed up furball.  I'm saying I could sit over that in just about any plane and do nearly as well as if I  were in a 51, dora, tempest.. whatever. Any plane can cherry pick.  I've seen Todd work multiple bogies(several late war) in his spit and do just fine.  In fact, it was amusing to watch the BnZ'ers flail way at air.  He was playing to his plane's strengths better than the fast planes were playing to theirs.

Whine: you are also saying that you tangled up in a furball, I couldn't swoop down in a pee 51 and take you out or.... that having 4-8 pee 51's and a few doras and tempests above the crowd isn't annoying and unfair?

Answer: Your team can have the same planes overhead.. sounds like you're on the wrong team. Again, a guy can fly over a furball in just about any plane and get kills.. ya don't need a late war plane to do what you are describing. move along.

Quote:Since the fm2 is untouchable and takes so little skill...
When the hell did I say ANYTHING like that?   lol  Are you going to continue to invent toejam so you have an argument?  If so, let me know now so I can ignore you sooner.

Like I said Lazs, make an H2H arena and limit the ceiling and plane set to just planes you think are acceptable.  Make sure you post rules so people only fly  how you want them to, only  then will you be happy.

[Apache]

Steve, am I reading you right? You can do a 160+ kill streak, as you did in the P51, in a P40? In the MA?

[lazs2]

how do you get any of that from what I said?  especially the part where you are telling me what will make me happy..

I looked at my stats and I seem to be doing fine against late war planes with 50 mph speed advantages ... does that there is no need for parity?   does leviathn feel that there is no need for parity?

certainly it is obvious that any plane can do well.... "allmost as well as  pee 51" is an egageration tho.  a gross one.  still...

I would like to hear you say it... do you feel that planes with 50 mph speed advantage are a fair way to run an arena?  Does that offer something for everyone in your opinion?   Do you seriously think that you could garner much of a streak in say.... and fm2 or spit 5?   and if you did... what would your stats for that streak look like?   Also... what do you have against an early war area (a small one) within the arean?   How would that hurt you?  please read what rude wrote... do you believe that rude is as "wrong" as I am?

do you think it is lost on the people reading this board that only those who fly the very fastest planes most of the time see no need for parity?
lazs

[Steve]

Well ya sorta nailed me there Apache. let me clarify ok?

I don't think I could do a 160 streak in any plane, lol.
I tried to be clear and say "nearly as well". I think, on a streak basis, you would at least occasionally need that "escapability" a fast plane offers.

I know my replies to Lazs are antogonistic.. but I really do empathize with him.. sometimes I want to mix it up in a furball w/ a spit V or something and the zoomers just won't let it happen. However, I don't consider it annoying or unfair...It's just part of the game.  Instead of posting my frustrations on the baord, I climb back in my pony and clear the skies of the offending planes.  

To reiterate what I meant though:  I think one could zoom thru a furball and get kills in just about any plane.  IMO Lazs concerns  are more based on flying style than plane type. Lazs does a nice job of saying this is not the case, I merely disagree with him.

[lazs2]

ok steve... fair enough... but... I don't like to fly pee 51's... they bore me witless and I feel a little.... unfair in em.   so... by your own admission you find it hard to fight  (i would define that as annoying) planes like the spit 5 and the others with pee 51's around... your solution is to grab another pee 51... do you see what you are saying here?

If you tried to streak in a p40.. I don't believe you would do "nearly as well".   I also think that you might become.... well.... annoyed.
lazs

[Steve]

Lazs, you want to hear me say it?  OK. I think it is fair to have planes in the same arena with a 50 MPH disparity.

Look Lazs, let's use a fast plane... say the pony.. and your beloved FM2.  Now let's put you in your FM2 and me in my pony.

I'm down on the deck in my pony, turning another plane... you come in 3k above me, in your trusty FM2, and engage me.. who is going to win?  I think you probably will.  What do you think?


OK, you're down on the deck, in your FM2, turning another plane. I come in 3k above you, in my pony, and engage you....who is going to win?  I think I probably will. What do you think?


Now, let's go 1v1.  Coalt if you like.. or give either one of us an advantage.. I do not care.  Your high FM2 won't ever touch my low pony.. never get a shot.  Why?  because I won't let you..I'll take the fight to your compression speed...and do a low break turn and escape(or any other assorted move)... then depending on what you do, I'll reverse and re-engage.   If you don't go to compression speed.. I'll simply take my 50 mph and leave.

My high pony won't be able to get a gun solution on your low FM2.. even if I have all day..why? because you won't let me, unless you make a mistake. But  then mistakes are irrespective of plane type. You'll duck that FM2 until I've pissed away all my E, and then I'll be forced to retire, or risk a knife fight with a better turning plane.

It's not that I see no need for parity... I see that there already is parity.  The FM2 can do things the fast planes cannot...just like the fast planes can do things the FM2 cannot.

BTW, if you're doing fine against late war planes.. what are you squeaking about?

As for streak flying... i think the faster plane would give you an advantage for the reasons I mentioned in my post to Apache.

[Apache]

Originally posted by Steve
Well ya sorta nailed me there Apache. let me clarify ok?

I don't think I could do a 160 streak in any plane, lol.
I tried to be clear and say "nearly as well". I think, on a streak basis, you would at least occasionally need that "escapability" a fast plane offers.

I know my replies to Lazs are antogonistic.. but I really do empathize with him.. sometimes I want to mix it up in a furball w/ a spit V or something and the zoomers just won't let it happen. However, I don't consider it annoying or unfair...It's just part of the game.  Instead of posting my frustrations on the baord, I climb back in my pony and clear the skies of the offending planes.  

To reiterate what I meant though:  I think one could zoom thru a furball and get kills in just about any plane.  IMO Lazs concerns  are more based on flying style than plane type. Lazs does a nice job of saying this is not the case, I merely disagree with him.

Ak, ok, now I understand. Had me wondering there for a minute .

I agree with you Steve in that anyone in any ac can zoom thru and get kills, certainly. Additionally, someone stated that it's the players, not the planes. I agree with that as well, however, a large portion of said players (when I play at least) choose to fly the ac 50+ MPH faster than most of the plane set, stats show that. An early war ac, even with alt, isn't going to catch the auger/pork/blowthru/top3 fastest ac in the game. If they would fight and there are of course exceptions, it wouldn't be quite so bad. Heck, I fly a Yak most of the time and still can't catch most of em, lol. Thus my reason for the lil girly whinin' thing.

An RPS is a bad phrase. I had no problem with it in WB since I didn't get into the bickering much over there about introduction, but, I tend to like lazs' early war area within the arena better.

[Steve]

Lazs, I agree w/ you on the streak thing.. plain and simple... but I thought we were discussing"normal" MA stuff.

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by lazs2
mandoble... look at my amount of assists before you label such planes as fm2's or -1a's as on ping killers.  
lazs

Lasz, it is not very difficult to find out I'm refering to the spit plague.